Young Professional Moving to SF/Oakland (San Francisco, Berkeley: transplants, apartments, for rent)
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I've accepted an offer for a new job that will have me working in downtown Oakland. I am considering different areas to live in, and will be doing some apartment hunting in May. I was hoping to get some advice on a number of topics to help frame that trip.
Some basics about me:
-I am a single 29 year old male with a salary of 140k.
-I am looking for a furnished apartment.
-I am looking for an apartment in/near an area with an active nightlife.
-I am looking to not have to commute more than an hour to Downtown Oakland.
-I'm not against living with people, but would prefer my own place.
I'm operating under the assumption that SF is a better place to live than Oakland, if you can afford it. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Any help you all can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
On the topic of where you can live, would you plan to take public transit if you didn't live in Oakland? If so, areas near BART stations would be the most convenient.
In SF, that really only leaves the Mission with the most "neighborhood" type feel. There is also SOMA, but that neighborhood is less "typical SF" (it's more new highrises/condos vs. older houses). If you're looking for furnished apartments, this area might be your best bet in the city, though (lots of bigger complexes in this area, which tend to at least offer furnished apartments).
Depending on your tolerance of a commute, you can also expand a little and look at neighborhoods still close to BART (but not right next to a BART station). You could take a bus or one of the streetcar (light rail) lines to a BART station. Examples: Inner Sunset, Cole Valley, the Castro, Duboce Triangle, lower Haight, Hayes Valley...obviously the closer in, the shorter the overall commute (but also as a general rule, the more expensive it gets).
If you'll have a car and are thinking of driving, this would open up many more neighborhoods of SF to you. I have some friends that do the commute to Oakland from SF (and say it's pretty easy, since it's a reverse commute). But be aware that you'll need to park it (new highrise condos/apartments have parking (which can be pretty expensive), whereas living in a more typical neighborhood will probably mean street parking).
Also, I'd also seriously look at Oakland. It is a great city and has a lot to offer (very similar amenities to SF in most ways). And as SF has become more expensive, Oakland has become more like SF culturally (for better or worse...although it is still definitely it's own unique city). Living in Oakland would mean a shorter commute, better weather, an arguable more interesting/diverse mix of people, and cheaper overall living, and these things can really make your life more enjoyable - don't underestimate how much these factors can really improve your overall quality of life.
Some of my favorite neighborhoods/areas are Rockridge, Lake Merritt (around Grand Ave.), and Piedmont. We have a lot of Oakland posters on here that can offer better advice than I could here, though.
No matter what, you'll want to really explore both cities to see where you like it more. It sounds like you don't have a lot of real-world experience with the Bay Area (?), and if that's true, you really want to get to know the area. It's hard to get a grasp for any place from afar, especially one that's changing as quickly as SF/Oakland and the Bay Area are (it's changed quite a bit even in the more than 5 years I've been here...).
One more point: On that salary you can live in pretty much any neighborhood as a young single person. The real question is if you'll be bothered by how much of your income will go to rent. You certainly won't have any issues of affording the area, but from my experience, a lot of people I know making well above $100K get fed up with how expensive it is here. Sure, they bring it on themselves (do they need an apartment all to themselves? Do they have to live right in the center of the most expensive neighborhood in the most expensive city? - obviously, the answers to these questions are "no")...but I think they get it in their head that they're making good money now and should be able to have a certain lifestyle. This is an expectation problem (not really a problem of truly being able to afford the area), and I see it a lot in recent transplants making good money.
That being said, there are plenty of people that don't care as much about this. I'm one of them. Even if I were making over $100K (which I'm not), I'd have no issues of still living with a roommate and not living in the most hip neighborhood of the City. I don't need to live in a luxury complex, and I enjoy having a roommate...but others are different.
Just be aware of how expensive it is here, especially if you're really looking at furnished apartments and want to live alone (in SOMA in SF, for instance, that's going to be probably be over $4,000/$5,000 (or even more) a month in some places).
Last edited by HockeyMac18; 04-24-2015 at 03:29 PM..
Depends on how you define "better." If you want a certain type of housing, e.g. craftsman bungalows on a beautiful tree-lined street, and you had no budgetary limitations, parts of Oakland have it (I'm thinking Rockridge, but that's not all) and SF has basically zero. If you want warm weather and want to rent or share in a house or duplex with a yard, Oakland wins again with many more such options. But SF has many more modern luxury apartments, it has victorians, it has many more urban neighborhoods that have walkable amenities, although each is small compared to a real big city.
Given your income and desire to be near nightlife, you can afford SF, and nothing will compare to SF. It will come down to what kind of neighborhood and how much you want to pay (2750? 3k? 3500?).
Wanting a furnished place - I have no idea what that means here. In NYC, this is very easy to pull off. Not sure how much is here. Craigslist is a good place to check.
I personally don't think SF is a better place to live than anywhere. That's just me, I find it super annoying. It's a great place to go play sometimes but restricting to live in. Look at surrounding communities and you may just end up with a little money in the bank in addition to living in the Bay Area.
I personally feel like Oakland has a bit of a better nightlife scene than SF. However, much of what determines that depends on what type of entertainment you're looking for in your night scene. If you're looking for dive bars with live music, I feel like Oakland is better (because all the good dive bars in SF are closing due to rent pressures). If you're looking for the "nightclub" scene - you can find those in both, but again people say that Oakland is better for that as well. Where SF really shines in nightlife is theater/arts.
The Rockridge area of Oakland is probably my favorite from a housing standpoint. It's close to BART which you can take into downtown Oakland very quickly, or you could even take the bus on AC Transit. Alameda is another awesome option. You should be able to find a place for yourself in Oakland on that budget. In SF, you could do it, but you'd be putting more of your income to it, which you'd have to justify, you know - opportunity cost and all.
Really appreciate all the advice. It sounds like there is plenty to consider.
I have literally zero experience with the Bay Area which is why my questions are so broad. I've around around cities most of my life, though have never lived in a city. It's something I'd like to experience, at least for a little bit. I understand San Francisco/Oakland is not New York, though I feel I can still meet that intent. Hopefully. That being said, I'll be sure to check out the highlighted parts of Oakland.
In terms of housing/apartment, I'm not as picky as I am for a neighborhood where it promotes actually having a life outside of work. So long as the actual place I'm living isn't embarrassing to have visitors in, I would be content.
I will have a car, but my initial thoughts were to use public transportation as much as possible. This is largely derived from all the chatter I read about the terrible commutes. I've also read that the reverse commute is a myth. It makes sense that it would be easier to go from SF to OAK than vice versa, but with the internet being the internet, it is difficult to get a steady answer. That is really encouraging to hear that people on this forum either have done the reverse commute, or know others who have, and it has worked out well. It will definitely open up options.
Again, all my thoughts are based off cursory knowledge from Google. Please, please, please shoot holes in my logic, and thanks to everyone who already has!
Really appreciate all the advice. It sounds like there is plenty to consider.
I have literally zero experience with the Bay Area which is why my questions are so broad. I've around around cities most of my life, though have never lived in a city. It's something I'd like to experience, at least for a little bit. I understand San Francisco/Oakland is not New York, though I feel I can still meet that intent. Hopefully. That being said, I'll be sure to check out the highlighted parts of Oakland.
In terms of housing/apartment, I'm not as picky as I am for a neighborhood where it promotes actually having a life outside of work. So long as the actual place I'm living isn't embarrassing to have visitors in, I would be content.
I will have a car, but my initial thoughts were to use public transportation as much as possible. This is largely derived from all the chatter I read about the terrible commutes. I've also read that the reverse commute is a myth. It makes sense that it would be easier to go from SF to OAK than vice versa, but with the internet being the internet, it is difficult to get a steady answer. That is really encouraging to hear that people on this forum either have done the reverse commute, or know others who have, and it has worked out well. It will definitely open up options.
Again, all my thoughts are based off cursory knowledge from Google. Please, please, please shoot holes in my logic, and thanks to everyone who already has!
Glad to hear the advice was helpful. Definitely come out for a visit and really get a feel for the areas. I'd recommend a few days for both SF and Oakland/Berkeley. Really try to see as many neighborhoods as you can. It shouldn't take you long to get a good feel for which area will fit you best. Also try to get a sense for rents in each place (via craigslist) when doing so, as that will really help you narrow things down (i.e. is always a good "tie breaker" if you like two areas equally).
The reverse commute being a myth is true, in a sense. It really depends on which "reverse" commute one is referring to. For instance, there isn't much of a reverse commute heading south out of SF these days because so many people live in SF and work south of SF (in San Mateo, Redwood City, Palo Alto, or other areas of "Silicon Valley"). It sounds strange to hear of so many people leaving the city for work...but it's popular with younger people (for obvious reasons) to live the urban life. And SF is the top dog for urban living in the region.
The reverse commute I was referring to is the SF to Oakland one, and there is definitely a good reverse commute for that. My friends that do it say it takes a little extra to get across to the East Bay (Oakland/Berkeley) vs. non-rush hour times, but it's not much of a difference. I think the main reason that reverse commute works so well in that direction is because there aren't that many people living in SF and working across the bay - generally people will choose to live in the East Bay if their job is over there (which makes sense...cheaper, more housing options if you have a family, don't have to cross a bridge, etc.).
People certainly do it (as evidence by my friends), but it's not like the SF -> Silicon Valley that is much more prominent these days.
I'm operating under the assumption that SF is a better place to live than Oakland, if you can afford it. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong.
This isn't necessarily true. Oakland has much better weather than most of SF and it's a lot more laid back. Many people vastly prefer the Oakland experience over the one offered by SF because it's more diverse, in every sense of the word. If you want to keep a car, Oakland is also a much better place since parking is easy and the traffic within Oakland's city limits is pretty minimal. On your salary you could easily afford the nicest parts of Oakland like Uptown or Jack London Square, which you will have better odds of finding a furnished place.
The advice above is great, I don't have much to add. If living in SF, I wouldn't advise living somewhere where you can't walk to the BART station. A muni and BART commute would get old really quickly. If you want to live in SF, with what you're looking for, I advise The Mission by 16th or 24th st. BART stations. Another option might be Hayes Valley, which is roughly a 15 minute walk to Civic Center BART.
In Oakland Jack London Square, Uptown, Temescal, and Grand Lake areas would fit your parameters. I agree with HockeyMac that you should visit SF and Oakland to see which you prefer. One thing it's common for people in your situation to do is to live in SF for a year or two and then move closer to work in a nice part of Oakland.
I think Uptown, an area in downtown Oakland is your best bet. Lots of nightlife. Walkable to work. Close to BART, really short ride to SF (about 15 minutes). And a cab from SF if you miss the last train is around $30.
I think finding a furnished place might be trickier.
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