Oh the Irony in San Francisco

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

If they are working with a fraudulent ssn why wouldn't they do their taxes with the same fraudulent ssn to get a refund? Did they somehow decide to make a moral stand come April 15th?

Like you said, they don't want the attention, who gets more attention, someone who does their tax returns or someone that doesn't?

I was not aware the IRS had the power to fire people from a private company.

OMG they don't fire anyone, a lock in letter is a pain for the employer, it alerts them to the possible fraud by the employee who is under withholding and they want no part of it, the last thing they want is for IRS to alert ICE that there is a 'problem' with this taxpayer's SS #.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Not when you claim your deduction rate as 99 married. You won't have any income tax taken out, though FICA still would be.

This is true for legal citizens, as well.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You can't claim 99 without sending an explanation to IRS, and what you fail to understand is that most undocumented people desperately try to avoid getting the attention of anyone who might deport them, so they are probably the least likely population to write down a large number of dependents to avoid paying tax.

100% correct! as usual.

Originally Posted by shooting4life

I have never heard of that, I know people who often claim 99 on taxes and they have never sent an explanation to the IRS as to why they are doing it.

Even if they are paying taxes, their income is most likely low enough that they are receiving the majority of the income taxes back as part of a refund, if not more than they paid because of EITC. The illegal that makes 50k+ a year and actually pays more into the system than they receive is rare. This is especially true if they have a child while living here illegally and can claim additional dependents.

There is nothing unique to illegals in any of this. Except that illegals CANNOT get anything back. Legal citizens, meanwhile, get the deductions and are also responsible for massive fraudulent filings costing the treasuries billions in lost revenue annually.

And anyone who earns less than $50k or so a year pays less in taxes than value they receive. Including legal citizens.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

oh geez...They can't get a refund, they don't get EITC. If you consistently report a large number of exemptions you are inviting an IRS lock in letter and will most likely get fired.

Tax Topics - Topic 753 Form W-4 – Employee's Withholding Allowance Certificate

Remarkable the way Shooter clings in desperation to his convictions that illegals are the evil subversives destroying the system, isn't it? Meanwhile, legal citizens rip off the system by the hundreds of billions $$$$$ annually:

Tax-refund fraud is expected to soar again this tax season, and hit a whopping $21 billion by 2016, from just $6.5 billion two years ago, according to the Internal Revenue Service.
Tax-refund fraud to hit $21 billion, and there's little the IRS can do

In the United States, the IRS estimate of the 2001 tax gap was $345 billion.[7] For 2006, the tax gap is estimated to be $450 billion.[8]

A more recent study estimates the 2008 tax gap in the range of $450 to $500 billion, and unreported income to be approximately $2 trillion.[9] Thus, 18 to 19 percent of total reportable income is not properly reported to the IRS.[10]
Tax evasion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Etc. Etc.But go right on blaming your local strawberry pickers.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

This is true for legal citizens, as well.
100% correct! as usual.


There is nothing unique to illegals in any of this. Except that illegals CANNOT get anything back. Legal citizens, meanwhile, get the deductions and are also responsible for massive fraudulent filings costing the treasuries billions in lost revenue annually.

And anyone who earns less than $50k or so a year pays less in taxes than value they receive. Including legal citizens.
Remarkable the way Shooter clings in desperation to his convictions that illegals are the evil subversives destroying the system, isn't it? Meanwhile, legal citizens rip off the system by the hundreds of billions $$$$$ annually:




Etc. Etc.But go right on blaming your local strawberry pickers.

I'm all for preventing fraud by citizens as well. You can't seem to separate the two. Because one person does something bad doesn't mean it is ok for another person to do something bad.

One group of fraud is very easy to solve, the other is more difficult. Why not start with the low hanging fruit? Not to mention how it would increase wages. It is a win for everyone except business owners and democrat politicians. Which is why neither party will address this issue when 80% of Americans want to limit illegal immigration.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

I'm all for preventing fraud by citizens as well. You can't seem to separate the two. Because one person does something bad doesn't mean it is ok for another person to do something bad.

One group of fraud is very easy to solve, the other is more difficult. Why not start with the low hanging fruit? Not to mention how it would increase wages. It is a win for everyone except business owners and democrat politicians. Which is why neither party will address this issue when 80% of Americans want to limit illegal immigration.

Shooter, to make sure you understand, in spite of our frequent disagreements on methodologies and ideologies, interspersed with a variety of things we do actually agree on, I have actually always found you a sincere, well-intentioned individual.

That said, I never said it's ok for illegals to be here, to report or not report, etc. I have said just the opposite. What I am identifying is that prioritization is an important function in problem solving. Illegals rank very low on the list of actual problems caused, costs incurred. This observation infuriates many people who then accuse me of being an apologist, etc. That is an error.

The reason to not prioritize the low hanging fruit is that it distracts from the real efforts required to maintain a healthy, functioning system. While you and others are busy with nickel and dime small amounts of low cheap fruit, the real criminals are robbing the orchard blind, and its water supply to boot.

As for easy to solve, it isn't. If any of this was easy to solve, it would have been long ago. And the difficulties don't really lie with the illegals anyway. The challenges to solutions lie with government, business, and the general public all playing ideologies and special interests against one another. And all that weakness is rooted in human nature. Not in Jose and Hermando.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Thoroughly enjoying the show!

Thought I'd just add that my daughter is a Payroll specialist, and she once mentioned to me that if you claim 9 or more (not 99), the IRS is flagged and will be checking you out. You can claim 8, and not be flagged - but you'll have to pay the reaper at the end of the year. So, when tax time comes, and the deductions don't match the W-2, with dependent names and SS#'s the IRS will be calling.

So, if they want to stay under the radar, they aren't likely to try this.

[joelbunker]

Yes, those greedy, white people, from the suburbs, always trying to take all the good stuff from the hardworking minorities, who expect no free ride or privileges what-so-ever for being minority just burn me up. The next thing you know, they'll be pointing out how they're actually the minority, as minority status is defined as being "not-white," and therefore they are actually the minority population. I hate how whites are always complaining about how it should be based solely on the merits and talents of an individual to be accepted or get a job! Why should we have to be as good as the whites? All they do is raise the damned bar higher, and make minorities have to compete in fair merited competition! As minorities we've earned our right to be lazier, less talented, and less pro-active, but still be let in ahead of whites based on the fact that every one knows all white people alive today want to own slaves! Therefore, we must punish every new generation of whites for the racist thoughts we all know they have, even though each generation of whites that is subjugated and made to pay for the sins of generations of whites from over 200 years ago perpetuates the racism whites feel towards minorities, and re-enforces the stereotype that minorities can not compete fairly or on par with whites. I am glad then that I live in a City like San Francisco with the courage to hypocritically deny white people a fair chance, so we don't have to rise to the much more advanced levels that whites clearly operate at, which causes the need for us to block whites from succeeding in this City!