05-02-2017, 12:24 AM
3,335 posts, read
2,926,874 times
Reputation: 1305
yep!
05-02-2017, 12:26 AM
3,335 posts, read
2,926,874 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flovis
And go where?
1. They're in the desert 2. Phoenix and Boise have become expensive.
05-04-2017, 11:18 PM
5,888 posts, read
3,225,564 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neutrino78x
I tend to agree with you. That's part of why I voted No on the HSR. Although, in theory, a sufficiently fast train will compete with airplanes.
Well, planes have two major advantages over passenger trains:
* speed
* operator doesn't need to own land between point a/b which leads to much greater competition and more flexibility of route
So a high speed train is attempting to eliminate the first advantage.
It is hard to truly mitigate the second factor. Trains need tracks. You can only build so many tracks between point A and point B.
The British seem to do it well. Check out the result of their train system privatization:
Wikipedia article listing passenger train operators in the UK
But if you only have one set of tracks between A and B, you're not going to have much competition among train operators.
You haven't truly implemented High Speed Rail anyway until you're using Magnetic Levitation via liquid nitrogen cooled superconductors. Sometime in the future, we will discover a way to achieve superconductivity at room temperature, and that will change a lot of things, including trains. A maglev train has no friction with the rails, so in theory it can go as fast as an airplane (just under the sound barrier, since we don't want a sonic boom shattering people's windows). In practice, you might not want to go that fast, because any deviance from your straight path might send the train careening off the track at those high speeds.
All things being equal even maglev trains will never be as fast an aircraft....you're forgetting aerodynamic drag. The reason planes are fast is because they fly so high that dynamic pressure is very low.
Hence Elon Musk and his stupid Hyperloop concept. Another dumb thing that won't ever get built.
06-15-2017, 09:40 PM
3 posts, read
2,188 times
Reputation: 14
Anything beats gridlock on 6 or 8 lane freeways - and if freeways are at capacity today, where will we be in a decade? I ask critics of the high speed rail to ask themselves two questions, #1 have they ever been on a high speed rail way in Europe? #2 have they ever taken Amtrak from the Central Valley to Los Angeles? I have done both, and I am rooting for the HSR. Although somehow I think artificial intelligence may be the answer IF they design for long distance high speed, not just tootling across town. And as I bounce down the highways dodging the pot holes I tend to envision ai high speed cars on a smooth steel rail (saving tires) reaching 200 mph somewhere in the near future.
06-15-2017, 10:01 PM
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read
9,822,024 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by
macabhaird
Anything beats gridlock on 6 or 8 lane freeways - and if freeways are at capacity today, where will we be in a decade? I ask critics of the high speed rail to ask themselves two questions, #1 have they ever been on a high speed rail way in Europe? #2 have they ever taken Amtrak from the Central Valley to Los Angeles? I have done both, and I am rooting for the HSR. Although somehow I think artificial intelligence may be the answer IF they design for long distance high speed, not just tootling across town. And as I bounce down the highways dodging the pot holes I tend to envision ai high speed cars on a smooth steel rail (saving tires) reaching 200 mph somewhere in the near future.
Air travel is cheaper and already in place for longer travel throughout the third largest state by size.
No one is arguing against a robust reginional transportation system that ties both rail and expanded freeways.
I don't know why people say expanding freeways is a bad idea because they will have traffic in ten years while pretending not expanding freeways wouldn't make that same situation worse. Bart already runs at capacity and needs funding for expansion, modernizatio. Instead of making a robust regional travel system the state is duplicating a relatively effectuate and cheap transportation system that is more costly and less in demand.
Any sort of critical thinking beyond "Europe has trains, I like trains, lets build trains" shows the hsr as a waste of money.
06-15-2017, 11:29 PM
817 posts, read
922,556 times
Reputation: 1103
The CA HSR is not intended to be a commuter train, nor could it be HSR if it was a commuter train. I rode commuter trains into downtown Chicago for 12 years. Stations are positioned every 3-5 miles outside the city limits, and there are lightly used stations inside the city limits every 2-3 miles. Not all trains stop at all stations, but with diesel-electric trains, traveling 20 miles in 40 minutes is an accomplishment.
Looking at examples of other HSR systems, they also are not intended for daily commutes to work. On my recent ride of the Eurostar from Paris-London, there was one stop outside of London, and it was a discharge-only stop.
One smart move the organizers made was to plan stops in every place where they would need votes. No one votes for a train they can't use. SF is a little speck on California's population map. Los Angeles, while over 10% of the population, is a large enough place that its own residents may not vote for a train that only stops downtown. Both cities are not particularly loved by the rest of the state, so the way to get the train is to run it to everywhere that would vote against it if they were left out. So we have LA, Burbank, Palmdale, Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, San Jose, and SF, plus Anaheim, because that is a popular destination. Then a second phase includes Sacramento, the Inland Empire, and San Diego, while bypassing the coastal Orange County NIMBYs, so not only do they get enough "yes" votes, they also avoid "no" votes. Most trains will not make all of the stops, but we have to count on trains making at least half. That slows the train down.
After all of the expense of building, then operating expense will also have to be taken into account. In the Chicago area, a Zone E Monthly Ticket costs about $185, and that includes a subsidy funded by sales tax. This will get you to places that are about 20 miles away, like Roselle, Homewood, or Northbrook, running on tracks which have been in place for about 100 years, and the trip is about 40 minutes. If the HSR gets built, the fares will keep it from becoming a commuter train.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dmlandis
Amazing how far the USA is behind China. Tianjin to Beijing (110 km) in 1/2 hour at 300 km trains all for the price of $8. When I'm in the Bay Area next month, I'm sure how marvel at the BART Trains going 60mph and spending twice as much at half the distance. When is the high speed rail supposed to be operational??
Not comparable. China's government determines what railroad builders and railway operators get paid. CA will deal with unions the entire way, which is much more expensive. Also China doesn't have environmental restrictions. The HSR will run into activists finding some rare pest in unpopulated areas to halt the construction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrsltd
Yeah; the rubber and auto companies bought up the track lines (at least in the LA metro) and shut them down so that more people would drive and/or ride buses.
As documented in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but that was local transit, not intercity trains.
06-26-2017, 12:50 AM
Location: Near L.A.
4,108 posts, read
10,803,014 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CaliRestoration
High Speed Rail has about a 20% chance of being finished in the next 70 years.
/thread
06-29-2017, 11:05 AM
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read
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Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moddedintegra56
If full speed ahead is soaking tax payers so the politically connected get rich then you are right.
06-29-2017, 11:06 AM
272 posts, read
322,495 times
Reputation: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moddedintegra56
wrong
really?
simple 10-15 miles BART east bay extension still is not completed after how many years of work?
And it didn't have any problem with approval, environment, budget...
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...sta-ebart.html
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People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
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People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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It is hard to truly mitigate the second factor. Trains need tracks. You can only build so many tracks between point A and point B. 
