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Speaking of intellectual honesty, surely you'd agree that a comparison of volunteering in 3rd Ward 20 years ago is not fair with an assessment of the Tenderloin today.
How about a comparison of the 3rd Ward today with the Tenderloin? Houston still comes out ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
In any event, glad to meet a fellow Cougar out here--though you should update your profile. It says "Pacific Northwest" which was the source of my confusion.
I think it confuses a lot of people...you're not the first. Maybe it would help if I put in the actual numbers of the coordinates.
37.5910° N, 122.4227° W
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
There aren't a lot of us out here. I run into a few UT grads every now and then. Tons of Harvard, Big10 schools and Oregon grads. Not many from other Texas schools, though. How long have you lived in SF?
Absolutely we are a rare breed out here. I've lived in the Bay Area since 2009.
You know what's scary? There was a huge encampment in Oakland Chinatown for months right outside a children's daycare. They were stealing water and electricity from the daycare and had set up camps, disposed of needles in the grass, and had mounds of trash (probably feces) all steps away from these children. Plus, I heard many of the crazies would wander into the street by the Posey Tube holding up traffic. Not the first time an encampment was there, which should be terrifying for the parents of those children and it's a damn shame the police wasn't out there to move them along immediately instead of months later.
Yes this is crazy and if you stand back and actually listen to what you wrote it sounds like a horror show about the decline of civility in the Bay Area.
For a state or city government; which includes society, to simply ignore/enable these behaviors speaks volumes to the nightmare situation that is festering all around us. What happened to we the people?
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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I am glad San Diego is a meth town and not a heroine town like SF, down here I am simply stepping over shards of broken glass meth pipes instead of needles.
How about a comparison of the 3rd Ward today with the Tenderloin? Houston still comes out ahead.
I think it confuses a lot of people...you're not the first. Maybe it would help if I put in the actual numbers of the coordinates.
37.5910° N, 122.4227° W
Absolutely we are a rare breed out here. I've lived in the Bay Area since 2009.
How long did you live in Houston?
How long have you lived here?
In sheer numbers, you are right. Adjusted for density, size and population, though, things get tougher to gauge. It's akin to me thinking SF's traffic is better than Houston's because I don't have to deal with it living in the City. Nearly all our traffic is out of view in the suburbs and other cities of the Bay Area.
I know that, for some SF traffic is as bad or worse than Houston's. It just isn't for me. Not by a mile. In Houston I dealt with traffic everywhere.
Likewise, the degree that homelessness is "bad" is best measured by the homeless individual. And again, homeless is homeless. No amount of law enforcement action or displacement by citizens corrects the actual homeless problem for that person in either city. It just makes it so people like you and I don't see it...temporarily, at least.
I agree that shooting up and crapping in public are terrible, though, and shouldn't be tolerated. It's a farther step for me to believe a camper with a tent and no other options for shelter should be arrested, though. I guess I see both sides.
On occasions when I walk around the TL, I hate to see tents and people unsheltered, particularly the mentally ill who seem incapable of lifting themselves out. It's unpleasant for me, but life threatening for the homeless person. On topic, I walk around in SF neighborhoods the like of which I'd never even drive around in Houston. SF seems much less dangerous.
Regarding where you live now, that's cool down by that lake! I went hiking down there a few weeks ago with some friends. That's right on the San Andreas fault! Beautiful, though. It's easy to see why you'd pick that area. Really peaceful and scenic. I can see why it reminds you of the PNW. It looks a lot like it. Who knows? after the Big One, maybe it will be the PNW!
I lived in the Houston area (mostly inside the Loop, plus a few years near Clear Lake and a few years on the west side, out by Gessner) for 32 years. I moved to SF just over a year ago and lived with roommates (as you do) until I could find a place. I just moved into my new spot in Pac Heights two months ago.
Still getting to know the neighborhood, but it is so nice here! It's walkable and there's great transportation. I kept my car when I moved here because my job is actually near Downtown Oakland. It's a bigger hassle to drive, though. So I take public transportation most days and only use my car occasionally. I may get rid of it altogether.
Does this apply to serial killers? I mean the problem is they kill people...that's a serial killer's behavior. The problem is they are a serial killer.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand your parallel with serial killers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora
You don't give people who are not of right mind the freedom to do as they please in society.
No one ever said to go in and arrest everyone on the street. You are asked to leave and if you are of sound mind and don't oblige then you go to jail.
You get a choice.
If you are not of sound mind you don't get to do as you please. It's detrimental to society.
I agree that these are the points we are debating and I understand your POV. I do not wholeheartedly endorse your position, though, and you obviously don't endorse mine. You make some valid points, however. They tend to show a bias toward an abstract and rather radically defined idea of "society" though. Is it possible that another measure of society would be how well it treats its most vulnerable and needy?
Or, at least whether society enables those vulnerable and needy to help themselves?
Those are point I'd personally prefer to think about, rather than thinking about the grounds upon which those needy people could or should be arrested.
Thoughts?
PS- I figured out how to do that cool individual quote thing!
I'm sorry, I don't really understand your parallel with serial killers.
Let me try another way. You basically stated that homeless behaviors are symptomatic of the problem. Same with serial killers. Their behaviors are symptomatic of their problem. So do we simply enable serial killers to continue on with their behaviors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
Is it possible that another measure of society would be how well it treats its most vulnerable and needy?
You mean humanity? Sure take a good long look far back in history up through today...not much change in how humans treat each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
Or, at least whether society enables those vulnerable and needy to help themselves?
The homeless would not be homeless if they had the skills to help themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
Those are point I'd personally prefer to think about, rather than thinking about the grounds upon which those needy people could or should be arrested.
Did you really not pay attention to what I posted earlier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora
You don't give people who are not of right mind the freedom to do as they please in society.
***No one ever said to go in and arrest everyone on the street. You are asked to leave and if you are of sound mind and don't oblige then you go to jail...thus you get a choice.
If you are not of sound mind you don't get to do as you please. It's detrimental to society and those individuals need to be institutionalized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
They tend to show a bias toward an abstract and rather radically defined idea of "society" though.
Care to elaborate as this makes no sense. Nothing I view is abstract when it comes to the homeless behaviors and the bleeding heart excuses seen in the Bay Area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
It's a farther step for me to believe a camper with a tent and no other options for shelter should be arrested, though. I guess I see both sides.
This step seems to be missing reality. A camper pays to camp on public camp grounds. That's what a camper does. Setting up tents on public property...when the property is not intended for those purposes and then proceed to trashing the public property with human excrement, needles, broken bottles, trash piled high around a stinking bio-hazardous filthy pile of homeless rubbish...that's what homeless folks do...not campers. Don't insult campers by confusing them with homeless people.
Campers dig holes to crap in and cover up. Homeless folks just crap on public sidewalks.
See the difference between a camper and a homeless person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
I can see why it reminds you of the PNW. It looks a lot like it. Who knows? after the Big One, maybe it will be the PNW!
It does not remind me of the PNW. I live on the other side of the mountain from the Pacific Ocean.
My location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W, does not equate to PNW. Recall earlier I cleared up this confusion? At least I thought I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
I moved to SF just over a year ago and lived with roommates (as you do) until I could find a place.
Where did you pull this from? I have never in my entire life lived with a roommate and never would ever consider doing such a thing upon moving here.
I'm not burning the midnight oil again. Have a good night Dal!
Does this apply to serial killers? I mean the problem is they kill people...that's a serial killer's behavior. The problem is they are a serial killer.
That's a great point that gets completely overlooked with the homeless apologists. In their world, every uncivil and aggressive behavior is excused by virtue of their mental illness.
Understood that their psychiatric problems are the cause of their behavior but that does not give society any valid reason to not protect its population from it. It does not matter what the reason is for the poop on the sidewalk, for getting spit on, for getting your car broken into - those behaviors cannot be tolerated even if they are due to mental illness or lifetime trauma.
The population must be protected first and foremost, and this has been San Francisco's biggest abdication of responsibility by far and why it stands out in the United States as a failing city
And talking about problems getting worse, there's a November ballot initiative (Proposition C) that would tax the most successful companies doing business in SF more to provide more free homeless benefits.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. SF is becoming hostile to residents and business, and now they want to tax those businesses! So backwards
That's a great point that gets completely overlooked with the homeless apologists. In their world, every uncivil and aggressive behavior is excused by virtue of their mental illness.
Understood that their psychiatric problems are the cause of their behavior but that does not give society any valid reason to not protect its population from it. It does not matter what the reason is for the poop on the sidewalk, for getting spit on, for getting your car broken into - those behaviors cannot be tolerated even if they are due to mental illness or lifetime trauma.
The population must be protected first and foremost, and this has been San Francisco's biggest abdication of responsibility by far and why it stands out in the United States as a failing city
Who the hell argued any of this in your mind? Who are these “apologists” here?
This is just stating the obvious sanctimoniously when no one is arguing. Meanwhile, the behavior of the mentally ill is being explained for what it is: completely untethered to opinion and therefore unresponsive. Protest until you turn blue. You clearly have no grasp of what it takes to manage the problems.
By the way, the severely mentally ill only represent about 25%-30% of the homeless. So it would be appropriate to not infer they represent the behaviors of “homeless” people, et al.
Lmao at “SF ... failing city.” Right Blake. Highest priced real estate (except for Manhattan) in the nation ... because? ... Desirability.
The homeless problem sucks. Ugly. Nasty. With so much money in SF and such desirability, the problem will get managed. Somewhat ridiculous it’s taken so long? Absolutely.
And talking about problems getting worse, there's a November ballot initiative (Proposition C) that would tax the most successful companies doing business in SF more to provide more free homeless benefits.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. SF is becoming hostile to residents and business, and now they want to tax those businesses! So backwards
Lmao again, Blake. You think “those businesses” - you know, the ones leading the city, the state, our nation, internationally as jugernauts are going to bolt and run from something they too would like cleaned up? Of course they’ll try to shirk as much as possible. But they have purchsed and renovated some of the nation’s most expensive commercial square footage in a region they desire to be in fanatically because of the relevant tech population there.
Who bettr to pickpocket for the costs to solve than the very industry that has driven the homeless from their homes in the meteoric rise of real estate prices?
What nonsense.
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Maybe it would help if I put in the actual numbers of the coordinates. 
) until I could find a place. I just moved into my new spot in Pac Heights two months ago. 
