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Old 05-07-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You do realize, don't you, that the homelessness is created in large part by the free-market system for real estate, coupled with the job boom in certain sectors? Supply and demand. Demand skyrockets, prices follow. The alternative is to regulate prices, or set prices via a centrally-planned economy, as in Russia, Bosnia, China, as the 'Mutt pointed out. Or to increase supply, by going skyward, and turning Oakland and SF into Hong Kongs.

Take your pick. Perhaps you could explain your comment attributing the problem to "running cities a certain way". What "certain way" is that, exactly?

On the one hand, having rents/RE prices set by federal housing authority (Moscow, WA DC, Beijing, whatever), and having said authority command that huge housing-block high-rises be built to accommodate demand, has the advantage, that people aren't forced to locate farther and farther out from their employment, so huge commuter traffic doesn't get generated. OTOH, the downside is, that most people don't want to live like in the linked article, and don't want their city to look like that (example from Vienna, Austria):

https://prospect.org/article/why-ame...social-housing
Im all for a sea of high density towers, maybe not too tall but like this building in West Oakland:


They should have built at least 100 of these.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249
The UC campus housing complexes on College and Haste and College and Channing I think would serve as good models.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Ca expat loving Idaho
5,267 posts, read 4,185,431 times
Reputation: 8139
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Because that IS the answer when rightwingers come here to apply their bogus version of common sense (aka a double standard) to majority liberal cities.

He said "Oakland needs to learn a lesson". Oh really? Why shouldnt the entire country learn said lesson?


What city do you live in?

I live in the City of Orange where we kick our homeless out of encampments and our Home Depots are doing fine and not being set on fire
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:30 PM
 
Location: America's Expensive Toilet
1,516 posts, read 1,249,409 times
Reputation: 3195
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Im all for a sea of high density towers, maybe not too tall but like this building in West Oakland:

They should have built at least 100 of these.
Good luck with your NIMBY neighbors and real estate developers who're looking to make a profit. Add in the fact that real estate projects often take a long time to approve and a number of mysterious fires have happened at constructions projects around Oakland in the last year or so.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper View Post
I live in the City of Orange
Oh really?

Take a look at just a few of your local headlines from the past month:

Eighteen More Homeless Died in OC in March
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/kriz-e...n-oc-in-march/

Orange County homeless population jumps to nearly 7,000, survey shows
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...425-story.html

OC Cities Struggle With Resources to Clean Up Railroad Homeless Camps
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/oc-cit...omeless-camps/

Nearly 60% of Orange County Homeless Sleep Outside
https://www.scpr.org/news/2019/04/26...omeless-sleep/

Santa Ana and OC Officials Bicker Over Stalled New Homeless Shelter
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/santa-...eless-shelter/

City Councilman Reveals Reality of Laguna Beach’s Homelessness Problem
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...425-story.html

Orange County Leaders Accused of Stifling Public Debate on Homelessness
https://www.courthousenews.com/orang...-homelessness/

Why dont you start a vigorous debate in the OC forum about the rampant homelessness down there? I just find it amusing that you would pontificate to us about an issue that is just as awful where you live.

LOL
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249
Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
Good luck with your NIMBY neighbors and real estate developers who're looking to make a profit. Add in the fact that real estate projects often take a long time to approve and a number of mysterious fires have happened at constructions projects around Oakland in the last year or so.
All true. Unfortunately.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Ca expat loving Idaho
5,267 posts, read 4,185,431 times
Reputation: 8139
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Oh really?

Take a look at just a few of your local headlines from the past month:

Eighteen More Homeless Died in OC in March
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/kriz-e...n-oc-in-march/

Orange County homeless population jumps to nearly 7,000, survey shows
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...425-story.html

OC Cities Struggle With Resources to Clean Up Railroad Homeless Camps
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/oc-cit...omeless-camps/

Nearly 60% of Orange County Homeless Sleep Outside
https://www.scpr.org/news/2019/04/26...omeless-sleep/

Santa Ana and OC Officials Bicker Over Stalled New Homeless Shelter
https://voiceofoc.org/2019/04/santa-...eless-shelter/

City Councilman Reveals Reality of Laguna Beach’s Homelessness Problem
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...425-story.html

Orange County Leaders Accused of Stifling Public Debate on Homelessness
https://www.courthousenews.com/orang...-homelessness/

Why dont you start a vigorous debate in the OC forum about the rampant homelessness down there? I just find it amusing that you would pontificate to us about an issue that is just as awful where you live.

LOL

those are not in city of Orange.
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper View Post
those are not in city of Orange.
Haha but they are right next to you while Oakland is 400 miles north. Just saying, it's amusing to me how many high minded out of towners flock to the SF forum to tell us off about issues they are also dealing with.

LOL
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:25 PM
 
758 posts, read 551,482 times
Reputation: 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Im all for a sea of high density towers, maybe not too tall but like this building in West Oakland:

They should have built at least 100 of these.
When it comes to roads, we have learned that one cannot build one's way out of congestion. You have to do something else. You can raise the price of driving (e.g., raise fuel costs, raise parking costs, reduce parking ability, charge to enter certain zones) or you can raise the viability of alternatives (e.g., public buses, private buses, robustify (a word?) taxis (like New York), dedicate bike lanes (with barriers, not just lines on the street)). But you can't build roads to build your way out of congestion. Any new road capacity you add immediately lowers the cost of driving, and thus attracts more drivers until you get right back to where you were.

Same with housing. You cannot build yourself out of insufficient housing. You have to do something else. You can raise the cost of housing so people move elsewhere. If people won't move, you can't solve their problem by building more housing because that will just attract more people, so you'd end up just with more people in houses and more people on the street.

People who cannot afford to live somewhere need to be helped in moving someplace they can afford to live. What, you say, about teachers and firefighters. If expenses are so high that teachers and firefighters cannot afford to live in a region, the region will just have to raise teacher pay. The only way that will happen is if current teachers move away, and no others take their place. That's the signal the system needs to get to realize pay needs to go up. Moving further and further out is an individual response and the system will not get a message on that basis. Protesting also fails because, in the eyes of the system, it can't be so bad, teachers are still here.

Now, you can turn the bay area into Hong Kong, like some seem to want. But you're deluding yourself if you think that will solve the problem. Here's an article on homelessness surging in Hong Kong

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...sky-high-rents

and here's a photo of homelessness in Hong Kong:
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,557,504 times
Reputation: 21249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SocSciProf View Post
When it comes to roads, we have learned that one cannot build one's way out of congestion. You have to do something else. You can raise the price of driving (e.g., raise fuel costs, raise parking costs, reduce parking ability, charge to enter certain zones) or you can raise the viability of alternatives (e.g., public buses, private buses, robustify (a word?) taxis (like New York), dedicate bike lanes (with barriers, not just lines on the street)). But you can't build roads to build your way out of congestion. Any new road capacity you add immediately lowers the cost of driving, and thus attracts more drivers until you get right back to where you were.

Same with housing. You cannot build yourself out of insufficient housing. You have to do something else. You can raise the cost of housing so people move elsewhere. If people won't move, you can't solve their problem by building more housing because that will just attract more people, so you'd end up just with more people in houses and more people on the street.

People who cannot afford to live somewhere need to be helped in moving someplace they can afford to live. What, you say, about teachers and firefighters. If expenses are so high that teachers and firefighters cannot afford to live in a region, the region will just have to raise teacher pay. The only way that will happen is if current teachers move away, and no others take their place. That's the signal the system needs to get to realize pay needs to go up. Moving further and further out is an individual response and the system will not get a message on that basis. Protesting also fails because, in the eyes of the system, it can't be so bad, teachers are still here.

Now, you can turn the bay area into Hong Kong, like some seem to want. But you're deluding yourself if you think that will solve the problem. Here's an article on homelessness surging in Hong Kong

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...sky-high-rents

and here's a photo of homelessness in Hong Kong:
Solid points and definite food for thought.
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