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Matadora, no one posting on this topic is as hilariously bizarre as you ... cracks me up.
1. I don’t “lump every homeless case into one” ... You do. You’re projecting. I’m the one who points out the extreme variety of homelessness.
2. I didn’t “leave out the 73 hypodermic needles” ... I specifically pointed out that there are millions of addicts who are not homeless also discarding needles in this country ... and while homeless addicts DO discard needles irresponsibly - YOU can’t identify the difference between housed and homeless discards.
3. I didn’t address “unmentionables” because ... well, you didn’t identify what the hell you are referring to. Whatever unmentionables are, apparently they are unmentionable by you lol.
4. You didn’t address my point that homeless people are not consumers of automobile tires and parts, wholesale packaging materials, lumber, furniture, appliances, consumer electronics, etc etc etc that constitute so much of the trash you rant about. Almost ALL the crap that the homeless drag to their camps is crap they find dumped by consumers and businesses illegally. Saying you “don’t care where they haul it from” is just - well, stupid. Most of that trash is already illegally dumped. Moving it from one dump site to their camp makes no difference. It’s the same amount of crap from the streets and alleys and railroad track sidings and freeway underpasses.
... and, since you are from Texas and love everything Lone Star, here’s a blurb from the North Central Texas Council of Governments (Dallas / Ft Worth area) on the topic:
Here you go Tule. I was in Oakland today and took these photos just for you! This is 23rd street exit and these photos were from 23rd to 19th street. Everything you just posted will show you are out of touch with reality.
Your pictures entirely, 110% miss the points I make. You can post a library full of pictures of trash on the streets ... but it doesn’t prove that the homeless generate that trash. Because they don't.
For example: a water heater .... think on it. Did a homeless person buy that water heater and then haul it to their camp, use it (connected to what and for what purpose) and then discard it?
How about those couches and chairs? TeeVee sets and kitchen mixers, lamps, microwaves ... (where there is no electricity?)
Shipping pallets? Stacks of old tires?
The homeless find the stuff dumped on the streets ... They drag what they think they can use to their camps. That’s ‘redistribution’ of illegal dumping done by businesses and the general public.
Your pictures entirely, 110% miss the points I make. You can post a library full of pictures of trash on the streets ... but it doesn’t prove that the homeless generate that trash. Because they don't.
Generates trash is not the proper usage of the concept. As seen in the photos and simply by looking around and observing...the "homeless" trash every place they occupy, including the public side walks, streets, and they seem to have zero issues existing in this pile of trash that they create.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
For example: a water heater .... think on it. Did a homeless person buy that water heater and then haul it to their camp, use it (connected to what and for what purpose) and then discard it?
Who the heck knows why they drag everything they find to their encampments. I'm pretty sure being drugged out has something to do with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
How about those couches and chairs?
What about them? Are you saying you don't see those in the photos?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
TeeVee sets and kitchen mixers, lamps, microwaves ... (where there is no electricity?)
Do you know what a gas generator is? In fact there was one running yesterday as I took these photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Shipping pallets? Stacks of old tires?
Yes they were using the stacks of tires to hide their bike chop shop from view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
The homeless find the stuff dumped on the streets ... They drag what they think they can use to their camps. That’s ‘redistribution’ of illegal dumping done by businesses and the general public.
Prove it. The homeless steal and take anything regardless if its bolted down or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Plain and simple.
Can’t grasp that? Lol
LOL at your lame attempts.
There is something gravely wrong when a city such as SF, Oakland or SJ turns their heads to the behaviors and trash and destruction these drugged out "homeless" who have turned this into their lifestyle. The true homeless don't hang around these types of encampments. If fact you never see them.
Generates trash is not the proper usage of the concept. As seen in the photos and simply by looking around and observing...the "homeless" trash every place they occupy, including the public side walks, streets, and they seem to have zero issues existing in this pile of trash that they create.
Who the heck knows why they drag everything they find to their encampments. I'm pretty sure being drugged out has something to do with it.
What about them? Are you saying you don't see those in the photos?
Do you know what a gas generator is? In fact there was one running yesterday as I took these photos.
Yes they were using the stacks of tires to hide their bike chop shop from view.
Prove it. The homeless steal and take anything regardless if its bolted down or not.
LOL at your lame attempts.
There is something gravely wrong when a city such as SF, Oakland or SJ turns their heads to the behaviors and trash and destruction these drugged out "homeless" who have turned this into their lifestyle. The true homeless don't hang around these types of encampments. If fact you never see them.
So, you admit (in the first line bolded above) that they drag this crap to their encampments ... very good.
Why they do is obvious but immaterial to this exchange we are having. The point is: the homeless aren’t generating this trash ... it is dragged around by them from where it was previously dumped by non-homeless people and businesses.
I linked you to articles about illegal dumping. Are you denying that illegal trash dumping has been ongoing in America (and worldwide) since consumerism started filling the world with this crap?
Are you really going to tell me that the homeless steal waterheaters and dump them? Couches? Chairs?
I just demonstrated that your accusations (that the homeless generate all that trash) are b.s.
Your pictures entirely, 110% miss the points I make. You can post a library full of pictures of trash on the streets ... but it doesn’t prove that the homeless generate that trash. Because they don't.
For example: a water heater .... think on it. Did a homeless person buy that water heater and then haul it to their camp, use it (connected to what and for what purpose) and then discard it?
How about those couches and chairs? TeeVee sets and kitchen mixers, lamps, microwaves ... (where there is no electricity?)
Shipping pallets? Stacks of old tires?
The homeless find the stuff dumped on the streets ... They drag what they think they can use to their camps. That’s ‘redistribution’ of illegal dumping done by businesses and the general public.
Plain and simple.
Can’t grasp that? Lol
I usually agree with you, but not in this case.
I have seen large accumulations of trash in areas where there are homeless camps, even in my neighboring city. It's always tents, shopping carts, bikes, and PILES of trash.
It's making a lot of people here VERY angry, to be honest.
Matadora's pictures are concerning because they are from an area that borders a sensitive marine ecosystem (the SF Bay), which means when the winter rains start, all of that trash is going to be washed straight into the Bay.
As a mariner yourself, I would think this would be concerning to you.
The homeless steal and take anything regardless if its bolted down or not.
Such as the children's bikes in those pictures? ...My wife is from the Phillipines, specifically Manila, and we were talking about the differences between the homeless there and in the US.
Homeless in the Phillipines are not boastful of their situation, they take no pride in it and they are generally cleaner and more humble.
Homeless in the US seem to prefer their situation, despite the programs that exist to help them. There is also a really horrible sense of entitlement and hubris that many homeless in the US display, such as deliberately trashing the spaces around them.
I have seen large accumulations of trash in areas where there are homeless camps, even in my neighboring city. It's always tents, shopping carts, bikes, and PILES of trash.
It's making a lot of people here VERY angry, to be honest.
Matadora's pictures are concerning because they are from an area that borders a sensitive marine ecosystem (the SF Bay), which means when the winter rains start, all of that trash is going to be washed straight into the Bay.
As a mariner yourself, I would think this would be concerning to you.
I scoop trash out of waterways all the time, yes. Why do you think it isn’t a problem for me?
What I’m correcting here is the common notion that homeless are to blame for all the trash. Street homeless ARE trashy. Of course. The point is: they aren’t the consumers creating the trash ... nor are they the initial point of dumping for the most part. Don’t know how you could miss the obvious truth of my posts in this regard.
Nearly ALL the trash in homeless camps is trash that is illegally dumped by other parties. How many investigative articles would you like to read about the illegal dumping that has nothing to do with homelessness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple92680
Such as the children's bikes in those pictures? ...My wife is from the Phillipines, specifically Manila, and we were talking about the differences between the homeless there and in the US.
Homeless in the Phillipines are not boastful of their situation, they take no pride in it and they are generally cleaner and more humble.
Homeless in the US seem to prefer their situation, despite the programs that exist to help them. There is also a really horrible sense of entitlement and hubris that many homeless in the US display, such as deliberately trashing the spaces around them.
This is nonsense. A complete myth. The “hubris” you sense, is defensive belligerence born of a resignation of hopelessness.
In 30 years of interacting among homeless and assisting veterans in finding benefits and shelter, I have yet to meet a mentally coherent homeless person who would refuse a heated private room with a key, toilet, sink, window and a bed offered without conditions. Nothing fancy required.
Such as the children's bikes in those pictures? ...My wife is from the Phillipines, specifically Manila, and we were talking about the differences between the homeless there and in the US.
Homeless in the Phillipines are not boastful of their situation, they take no pride in it and they are generally cleaner and more humble.
Homeless in the US seem to prefer their situation, despite the programs that exist to help them. There is also a really horrible sense of entitlement and hubris that many homeless in the US display, such as deliberately trashing the spaces around them.
The homeless here in CA don't behave like the homeless where I grew up and still frequent. In fact they don't behave like the homeless in most states in the US.
It's only the states that are packed with bleeding heart mentalities. (CA, Wash, Oregon, Colorado) I'm from a Democratic city in Texas (Houston), you will never find the homeless getting away with doing what the homeless do here.
The reason they behave the way they do here in CA is because they know they can get away with it. It's people like Tule and Sleepy who have enabled this mentality to exist in CA.
When local governments and the police don't enforce consequences for uncivilized behaviors this is exactly the result.
Why are these folks allowed to trash to unimaginable levels the land they occupy? Why are they allowed to behave this way? The city puts up port cans and when I walked past it was the most revolting smell.
Why are city workers being subjected to clean up these bio hazardous fifthly encampments when they don't receive advanced training for handling such conditions? The filthy trash piles and disgusting smells I observed yesterday would require a hazmat team.
Why should these workers have to clean this crap up over and over and over and over again? Why should the tax payers money be wasted continuously to clean up and decontaminat these encampments?
For me It's an ongoing daily struggle and just about all is sourced/hauled from dumpsters... Grocery Stores, Malls and Hospital/Clinic.
We have secure caged collection enclosure for Sharps that simply can no longer be used due to pilfering trash... Cut locks, gates pried, steel plate folded back all to get to used needles.... similar for trash dumpsters...
Waste Management no longer uses steel dumpster lids due to injuries and now has to molded plastic which is easily defeated...
Been doing this 30 years and first 20 zero issues... didn't even lock the dumpsters then.
Wish it wasn't so.
On a separate note I persuaded management to purchase concrete trash receptacles hoping for improvement... meaning if those with trash to dispose have a convenient abundant place the problem would be solved.... it has not been the case... again done with the best of intention.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-19-2020 at 05:57 PM..
Reason: Typo
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