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A simple analogy: Average median income for SF: 80k. Cost of avg home: $720,000. Average median income for Raleigh, NC: 66k. Avg home price: $166,000. You do the math. The original post hit the nail on the head: even if you make a TON of money in SF, you will at the very best be living the same standard as an entry level middle class citizen elsewhere.
Sorry, but that's not so simple. You simply cannot, in any way, shape or form, compare the living experience of Raleigh to that of San Francisco. I would rather make $50k/year and live here than $500k/year and live in Raleigh.
[i]I've noticed that Californians seem to only be aware or a very narrow selection of states to move to. WA, OR, AZ, FL, and NY are not the entire United States. There are 50 states in all of which only 5 or 6 are chosen by California relo's probably because someone told them how the above mentioned states were " just like" California. If you do move away, don't do it because you're wanting to go someplace cheaper. Do it because you WANT to. Otherwise, you'll just try to turn something into a place that it isn't which will only cause you frustration. I've been all over this country and trust me- there are many WONDERFUL places that many of you would probably be amazed that you never knew existed. Once you get to wherever you got, leave California and the Bay Area behind and appreciate the beauty around you.
As someone who lived in a few of those other 50 states, I can safely say I would never live any where in the U.S. again except for D.C., Boston, NYC, or Seattle if I were to leave SF.
I know it may feel like the "Meditteranean" in North America so to speak, but I think it would be less expensive and more practical to live in Atlanta or Austin or Charlotte and just fly to the actual meditteranean several times per year! Personally, I enjoyed S.F. and appreciate the culture, but I didn't enjoy it to the tune $paying $850K for a home that would be $250K in Atlanta.
I absolutely think San Francisco is worth it. More on that later, but I wanted to reply to a specific thing you said.
In July 1999 I moved to Seattle from Minneapolis. I was hearbroken when I left Minneapolis, as I had loved it so much. It was DEFINITELY more expensive in Seattle. In June 2000, I went to Europe for a month, for the first time, and fell in love with Europe and travelling. In Seattle (at the time), I was making $35,000/year and just barely covering my bills. In October 2000, I got a job offer for $50,000 in Minneapolis (with five weeks vacation) and decided to move back. The $15,000 in income plus the reduction in expenses would mean I could go to Europe for 3 to 4 weeks every year. Well, I got back to Minneapolis and felt I made a huge mistake. But, I would be able to take this great trip every year. Then, after 6 months, I had a thought - why live some where I don't want to be year after year, so I can go some where I really want to be for a few weeks every year? I packed up, moved back to Seattle, and got my $35,000 a year job back. I can tell you right now, the day I got back to Seattle was the 2nd happiest day of my life (the 1st being the day I moved to SF). I didn't give a crap about making less money, and I knew I'd still be able to swing Europe - maybe only 2 weeks every other year, but I was back living (every day) in a place I wanted to be.
Now in San Francisco I make a darn good salary. A lot more than I did in Seattle, but I don't know when (if ever) I'll be able to buy a place. All my friends in Minneapolis are now home owners - every one of them. And, their mortgages are less than I paid in rent at my last place. But, I would rather rent for the rest of my life in San Francisco then own a nice home in Minneapolis.
I've been to Atlanta, Charlotte and Austin, and while they are nice cities, they are not San Francisco.
All I can say is well-said Mr2007.Point taken. Perhaps a better tactic would be to not advertise the fact that much of America is actually quite nice and easily affordable. Many in SF have yet to realize this, so perhaps it would do people like you and me a world of good to keep them thinking that SF is better than everywhere else. let them have it.
San Francisco *IS* better than everywhere else. That's my opinion, and it's just as valuable as your opinion that it isn't. If you're lucky enough to absolutely love where you live, whether it be San Francisco or Waco, Texas, you are extremely fortunate. I absolutely love living in San Francisco. I don't want to be any where else. I love that I smile when I write this, that when I walk out my front door to go to work every morning I smile. I love that I still love this city as much, after being here nearly 2.5 years, as did the first time I visited 6 years ago.
Where is everyone getting this idea that rent/mortage is 70% of ones income. Right now, my base salary is $65k. I'll probably make $80-$90k with bonus. My rent right now is 12% of my base salary and I share a nice three bedroom flat with two friends. Prior to this, I was living in a studio and my rent was 17% of my salary. I have friends, a couple, who own a $600,000 flat (very nice, beautiful, deck), they both make a little less than me (with bonus) and their mortgage is about 30% of their salaries. Another friend owns the flat above them and his share of the mortgage is less than 30% of his salary. Granted the two parties bought a $1.2 million dollar home together and it's not some grand home, it's very nice. The one who lives on the top floor, I have known since my days in Minneapolis. In Minneapolis, he had a large home in Edina with a great yard, I think it was around $400k. I love his smaller place here - much more character.
I realize it's possible that some people do spend a very large part of their incomes on rent/mortgage and that's just poor financial planning. You don't have to spend a large percentage of your income on mortage/rent to live in SF.
I fell in love with this city when I first visited in 2001, and moving here was the only relocation experience in my life where I wasn’t riddled with homesickness for months on end. In fact, I never once felt homesick for Seattle, even though I loved Seattle too.
San Francisco is truly a magical place and perhaps the most unique of all American cities. I have been to almost every major city in the U.S. and it truly is an original. All my European friends say the same thing. To them, cities like Chicago, Houston, Minneapolis and Seattle are “typical American cities” whereas San Francisco is so unique and interesting.
I also have a strong love for Europe, and the feel of San Francisco is almost European – with its dense population, urban feel, row houses, landmarks, squares and parks, museums, opera, the symphony, great architecture, amazing restaurants, distinct neighborhoods, plenty of outdoor shopping and life in general.
A typical night for my friends and I is to start drinking wine on someone’s deck, then going out for a nice dinner at a great restaurant, with the possibility of hitting a bar or two afterwards. A typical weekend day would involve hanging out in Dolores Park or Golden Gate Park, going up to Sonoma or Napa for a day of wine tasting, or simply taking a walk through one of the cities many great neighborhoods.
It’s the neighborhood life I really love about San Francisco. Everything is literally right outside my door – little food markets, grocery stores, bars, restaurants, shops, parks, and public transportation – everything. I could literally live in my neighborhood and never have to leave. Fortunately, there is so much to explore and do in this city that you often find yourself outside your neighborhood.
The restaurants are also amazing here. Like New York and Seattle, most restaurants are independent – i.e. not chain/fast food restaurants. It’s very rare to find a fast food restaurant outside of the Financial District. The only one is my neighborhood is a Taco Bell/KFC. The restaurants in this city are simply amazing. For example, you can get a cheap and great meal at Chow in the Castro – a local favorite, or head to the Financial District for an uber fancy dinner at Myth. There are also a plethora of amazing Mexican restaurants that serve authentic Mexican food. Eat a burrito at Azteca Burrito and you will never want to eat a Chapotle again. North Beach (aka Little Italy) is full of amazing Italian restaurants, and let's not forget about the great Asian food that can be found in Chinatown and practically any where in the city. There are so many great and diverse restaurants in this city. Coming from the Midwest, this is quite a change to the never-ending Applebees, Chili’s, TGI Friday’s, etc.
Many neighborhoods are so charming and interesting, with a never-ending stream of great architecture and beautiful houses – row houses. They all have their own individual character. The Mission is charming (although dirty) with its Hispanic influences. Civic Center has grand neoclassical architecture that rivals architecture in great European cities, although the nearby neighborhood is very dirty and riddled with homeless people. Noe Valley is quaint and charming, as if tucked away and isolated, even though it is just over the hill from the bustling Castro. Speaking of the Castro, it’s vibrant and full of life, not to mention good food and shopping. Russian Hill and Nob Hill offer spectacular views and incredible architecture. The homes in Pacific Heights are truly out of this world. The Marina is the home to what I call grown up sorority and fraternity people, in a surrounding that is truly breathtaking architecturally, and the fact that it’s right on the water adds to its beauty.
The setting of the city as a whole is really spectacular with being surrounded on three sides by water and the hills. There are many great lookout spots in the city that provide breathtaking views of the Golden Gate Bridge, the city, the ocean and the bay. I still get goose bumps every time I see one of these spectacular views.
We are also so close to Napa, Sonoma (which I love) Marin, Tahoe, Monterey, and many other interesting places to travel two outside of the city. When San Francisco is fogged in a quick trip across the Bay Bridge or Golden Gate Bridge and you find yourself in warm and sunny weather.
There is just so much to see and do in this city. I never get tired of it, and I (like my fellow San Franciscans) take great pride in our city. We (I) pay to live in what I believe is the greatest city in the U.S. To me, the fact that I may never own a home, is peanuts. I’d rather rent here the rest of my life than ever move back to the Midwest (even to Chicago which I quite like) and own a home. We pay a premium to live here, and to us it is worth it.
I also love the people here. People seem happier here and friendlier than anywhere I have ever lived. We appreciate life here in such an amazing way, because we pay a lot of money to live here and we want to be here. I have made more friends here faster than I have made anywhere else I have lived. When you meet someone, it’s not uncommon to become friends.
The people here are also forward thinking and largely liberal. However, I do have some Republican friends, and although we make fun of them, they are educated, informed, and I can tolerate them. They have a greater sense of understanding of the massive downfalls of the Bush Administration in a way that my conservative friends in Florida do not. People in San Francisco are educated and informed, because you really have to be. Politics is a common discussion topic here.
I don't think people are are conceited about living here. Rather, I think a lot of people who don't live here are envious of those of us who do. He/she from Houston (where there is nothing to see but freeways) wouldn't be on here slamming San Francisco if that weren't the case. I went to Chicago this summer to visit some friends and I met a lot of people while there. I began to feel self-conscious saying I was from San Francisco, because most of their eyes would pop out of their heads and the interrogation would usually begin with "really" or "wow". I love Chicago, and if I ever were to move back to the midwest, that is where I'd want to go....but it is still a midwestern city with a midwestern feel. Despite the fact that it's the third largest city in the U.S., it feels like a big midwestern town to me. The density and liveliness of San Francisco and even Seattle make them both feel like much bigger cities to me.
Unlike other posters, I'm not crazy about the weather here. Although I hated the frigid winters and sweltering summers of the midwest, I loved spring and fall. While the endless rain of Seattle winters made it tough at times, the spectacular summers made it well worth it. What I like about San Francisco weather is the average coldest month is January, with an average high of 58 degrees, and the average warmest month is September, with an average tempurature of 71 degrees. Not much difference over the course of the year, so I rarely ever feel too hot or too cold. But, there never seems to be an extended period of warm, sunny weather here. But, I love that I can occassional sit out on the deck in shorts and a t-shirt in January, while it's minus 6 degrees in Chicago and Minneapolis.
It is a lot of fun to have visitors, or go some where and say you are from here, because everyone knows of San Francisco and is in awe of it.
Lastly, SF does change you - it makes you grow into a well-rounded person. Not that anywhere can't do that, but you are exposed to so much here. There is so much culture, diversity and things to see and do. This city brought out my passions for wine, art, and architecture. It also greatly increased my political awareness.
Bottom line – I cannot imagine myself ever living anywhere in the U.S. except San Francisco! It really is a unique and amazing place, and I'm so fortunate to live here.
P.S. It was reportedly Mark Twain who said, "the coldest winter I've ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." The only thing is - he never said that.
Here are some quotes about the City that I love. Thought I would share.
"San Francisco is a city where people are never more abroad than when they are at home" - Benjamin F.Taylor
"One day if I do go to heaven I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco."
"The Bay Area is so beautiful, I hesitate to preach about heaven while I'm here." - Billy Graham
"I love this city. If I'm elected, I will move the White House to San Francisco. I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they even let me into Allioto`s. It may be Baghdad by the Bay to you, but to me it's Resurrection City." - Robert Kennedy
"I'm proud to have been a Yankee. But I have found more happiness and contentment since I came back home to San Francisco than any man has a right to deserve. This is the friendliest city in the world." - Joe DiMaggio, at his fiftieth birthday party.
"You are fortunate to live here. If I were your President, I would levy a tax on you for living in San Francisco!" - Mikhail Gorbachev
"Your city is remarkable not only for its beauty. It is also, of all the cities in the United States, the one whose name, the world over, conjures up the most visions and more than any other, incites one to dream. - Georges Pompidou
"East is East, and West is San Francisco." - O. Henry
"San Francisco has only one drawback. ''Tis hard to leave." - Rudyard Kipling
"No city invites the heart to come to life as San Francisco does. Arrival in San Francisco is an experience in living" - William Saroyan
"San Francisco itself is art, above all literary art. Every block is a short story, every hill a novel. Every home a poem, every dweller within immortal. That is the whole truth." - William Saroyan
"What fetched me instantly (and thousands of other newcomers with me) was the subtle but unmistakable sense of escape from the United States."
- H.L. Mencken
"It's an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be seen in San Francisco. It must be a delightful city and possess all the attractions of the next world" - Oscar Wilde
"Leaving San Francisco is like saying goodbye to an old sweetheart. You want to linger as long as possible." - Walter Cronkite
"I have always been rather better treated in San Francisco than I actually deserved." - Mark Twain
"It's simply a very romantic place. Just one look at any of those streets, and you couldn't be anywhere else -- it's so beautiful, and there's that location, and the sense of the free spirit. Who couldn't become ravenous in such a place?" - Julia Child
"We're crazy about this city. First time we came here, we walked the streets all day, all over town and nobody hassled us. People smiled, friendly-like, and we knew we could live here. We'd like to keep our place in Greenwich Village and have an apartment here, God and the Immigration Service willing. Los Angeles? That's just a big parking lot where you buy a hamburger for the trip to San Francisco." - John Lennon
"Isn't it nice that people who prefer Los Angeles to San Francisco live there?" - Herb Caen
“There may not be a Heaven, but there is a San Francisco." - Ashleigh Brilliant
"If you're alive, you can't be bored in San Francisco. If you're not alive, San Francisco will bring you to life.” - William Saroyan
YeS!! It is SO worth it. If only I made enough money to live in S.F. I agree that S.F. is outrageously expensive, but look at all you get? A breath taking view, gorgeous scenery, millions of things to do and fabulous culture. I live in Tracy, Ca which is 63 miles from S.F. Its an obsession of mine, visiting s.f. as often as I can. Although I can't afford to live there, its nice knowing i'm only an hour away from the great city. I'd live in S.f in a heartbeat if I only had the money.
note the pettiness and "there!" attitude of some of these comments. you're likely to find a lot of miserable people out here in SF and the big coastal CA cities. that should decrease the value of living here a little more for you.
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San Francisco
