Way to go, San Jose. It's about time.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Phil306

Absolutely not. My concern IS for the taxpayer, for I am one. I post what I do, to show the other sides of things. The issue isn't cut and dry. The city promised these people "X" and now they want to take that away from them. Can you blame them for being upset? For fighting?

I'm a City Employee, too. The issue is cut and dried to me. The unions pushed for and the City promised benefits they can't afford to pay, even if they hit taxpayers with a big tax increase. That's what we've got. Once you promise more than you can deliver, you're in trouble no matter what you do....and that's where we're at now.

Originally Posted by Phil306

And when they do give in to concessions, they are still shot down.

Yes, it's called "too little, too late".

Originally Posted by Phil306

Yet, the people of the San Jose PD agreed to cuts, to save jobs. The city took those cuts and still laid people off.No one cares about the public employees. They are the bane of society, sucking up everything.

Yeah, the cops agreed to pay cuts after years of getting larger pay increases than the rest of city employees (yes, I know the firefighters were even worse, I'm talking about the rest of the city employees). A year or two before the cops took their pay cuts, most of the major bargaining units agreed to a pay freeze while the cops took their pay raise as scheduled. That really po'd the rest of the unions, so we took our 2% pay raise the following year (dumb, in my opinion).

Originally Posted by Phil306

Yet, I have take a 24% pay cut. 24%, just so fellow officers would not lose their jobs. AGain, in the private sector, NO ONE would have given up pay to save someone else. We do. We give it all up, 25% of our pay/benefits so others keep their job. Then, the savings?

Like I said, too little too late. After putting off the inevitable for years and years, the cops and firefighters finally had to admit they weren't invincible. Since financial reality had been put off for so long, the pain was a lot worse than if they'd been realistic all along. It's true for the other unions as well, but the firefighters' and the cops' unions were the greediest, primarily because they have binding arbitration whereas the other unions don't.

Originally Posted by Phil306

The savings to to hire more police officers and more social programs. Really? Look at the facts. You hate cops,but they are there for you. They protect you.Now they are gone.

I don't know what part of "the city can't afford it" that you don't understand. If you are paying 46% of your salary toward your benefits and it hurts you big time, don't you think it hurts the city big time when they are socking away even MORE than that percentage (in addition to your salary & other benefits) for your pension???? Anyone who wants to use their brain knows this is unaffordable and unsustainable, even with a tax increase. Other city employees I know have seen this coming for years (although, they too, often don't think their pensions are unsustainable, only people who get more than then. See how that works? It's always "the other guy" who is greedy/unrealistic, but never "me").

I don't hate cops. That is YOUR interpretation. YOUR filter. YOU are taking things personally. What I DO hate is GREED, in ALL its forms. Yes, I get it. There are even worse examples out there than San Jose cops. That doesn't excuse it or make it ok. I don't care for the greed I see in my own union, who argued for YEARS that "the cops & the firefighters got X, so we should, too". Now, we've all gone off the same financial cliff together. It's nothing personal. It's just a human nature problem at its core. Everyone wants more than what is realistic and nobody thinks their little bit is all that expensive....but it all adds up. It's nothing new.

I agree, it sucks. And it's too late to do anything about it. Get ready for more, because we are in the early innings of this, both locally and nationally....and not just in the US, but it's a similar story in most developed countries.

[darkeconomist]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I'm a City Employee, too. The issue is cut and dried to me. The unions pushed for and the City promised benefits they can't afford to pay, even if they hit taxpayers with a big tax increase. That's what we've got. Once you promise more than you can deliver, you're in trouble no matter what you do....and that's where we're at now.

You're whole post, which I didn't want to quote in its entirety, seems like a well thought-out consideration of the reality of the situation.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by darkeconomist

You're whole post, which I didn't want to quote in its entirety, seems like a well thought-out consideration of the reality of the situation.

Second that. +1

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by darkeconomist

You're whole post, which I didn't want to quote in its entirety, seems like a well thought-out consideration of the reality of the situation.

Thank you to both of you . I've watched this movie play out for the last 15.5 years I've worked for the City of SJ, (although during the first 5 years, I wasn't really paying attention. My eyes started opening up around 2001, after the dotcom boom ended). It's really frustrating to watch the slow moving train wreck play out and not be able to do anything about it . The worst part of it is I don't think it's over by a long shot. I have serious doubts about the sustainability of the whole global financial/banking system, but that is a whole other post.