Tech Jobs Over 200K (Campbell, Nice: loans, buying a house, purchases)

[opossum_]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

If you're actually getting cash bonuses then of course it's income. The issue in this thread, though, is people making ridiculous claims without anything to back it up. It's easy to say salary + bonus = $200k. There's data on salaries (see the Robert Half 2015 Salary Survey I linked to) but there's no data on bonuses so you can make any claim you want there.

Average yearly bonus is no more than 10% and average stock distribution is quite small (instant cashed out value being smaller than bonus); average base software engineer salary in SF-SJ is around $106K. For senior SE, average base is around 126K (latter 2 are according to Glassdoor stats; former 2 are according to reports in places like Quora and various personal anecdotes). I guess one can open yet another worthless app start-up and start preaching VC money, so that something pays for restaurant trips until the whole thing goes bust (sorry, it just didn't work), then it gets better. Main thing is to pretend something is being done and more sheep can be fleeced to pay for services they were just fine without.

By the way, I rent out a room to a Google engineer, the guy has to be stuck in a tiny bedroom during the week till he can go back to his wife and home way out there, on weekends. The high life in action. (he's a cool dude, unlike many other types from that Co, that tend to be nauseating schmucks)

[CBB_bear]

I find it interesting that so many people are anti stock options on this thread. While stock options at a startup are a gamble, it seems to me that most of the people I know who are under 35 and were able to buy a house in the bay area are largely able to through selling off some of their stock options from working at apple/google/facebook/whatever stable large company to come up with the downpayment (that and being dual income). Feel free to correct me, as I don't work in tech.

[aramax666]

You are absolutely right. I know a lot of young guys, not even in their 30s who bought houses in the last 2-3 years. I know a guy whose 28, bought a house AND a tesla 85D. Of course, anecdotal evidence is not statistics, but when pretty much every engineer you know who works at Google/Facebook/Apple is buying houses and expensive cars, Its safe to say that they are compensated well.

Originally Posted by CBB_bear

I find it interesting that so many people are anti stock options on this thread. While stock options at a startup are a gamble, it seems to me that most of the people I know who are under 35 and were able to buy a house in the bay area are largely able to through selling off some of their stock options from working at apple/google/facebook/whatever stable large company to come up with the downpayment (that and being dual income). Feel free to correct me, as I don't work in tech.

[jbunniii]

Originally Posted by CBB_bear

I find it interesting that so many people are anti stock options on this thread. While stock options at a startup are a gamble, it seems to me that most of the people I know who are under 35 and were able to buy a house in the bay area are largely able to through selling off some of their stock options from working at apple/google/facebook/whatever stable large company to come up with the downpayment (that and being dual income). Feel free to correct me, as I don't work in tech.

Were they at these companies (Apple/Google/Facebook) before they went public? If so, then yes, they probably had stock options and they paid off handsomely. But for every positive example like that, you can probably find ten examples of companies who failed to go public and whose employees' stock options were worth nothing.

For most people, a much better alternative is restricted stock. Many publicly traded tech employers now give restricted stock in addition to (or instead of) stock options. The difference is that restricted stock is always worth something unless your employer's stock price drops to zero. Whereas stock options are worth nothing if your employer's stock price drops below your strike price (usually the market price around the time you joined). It's not uncommon for restricted stock to boost your income by $50k or $100k per year. Certainly enough to save up a downpayment over a period of several years.

Stock options are a much bigger gamble. The best time to buy a house is during a market downcycle, but this often means that stock prices are also down, so stock options may be worthless just when you need them.

[aramax666]

A decent comp from a big company for 5-10 years of experience could easily include 100-200K of Restricted Stock over 4 years.
This is "essential" part of the comp , as , for me, personally, without it, I would really struggle to keep up with my mortgage and bills.

RSU payouts every year could be 30-50% of overall comp.

[CBB_bear]

Were they at these companies (Apple/Google/Facebook) before they went public? If so, then yes, they probably had stock options and they paid off handsomely. But for every positive example like that, you can probably find ten examples of companies who failed to go public and whose employees' stock options were worth nothing.

For most people, a much better alternative is restricted stock. Many publicly traded tech employers now give restricted stock in addition to (or instead of) stock options. The difference is that restricted stock is always worth something unless your employer's stock price drops to zero. Whereas stock options are worth nothing if your employer's stock price drops below your strike price (usually the market price around the time you joined). It's not uncommon for restricted stock to boost your income by $50k or $100k per year. Certainly enough to save up a downpayment over a period of several years.

Stock options are a much bigger gamble. The best time to buy a house is during a market downcycle, but this often means that stock prices are also down, so stock options may be worthless just when you need them.

I honestly don't know the details, but you are right, they probably had restricted stock, not stock options. Just something related to stock as part of their compensation that allowed them to save up for a downpayment. Late 20s/early 30s in tech, with relatively lucrative jobs (software engineers and such), most of whom spent at least some time in larger companies (google or apple).

[FioSJ]

Originally Posted by aramax666

A decent comp from a big company for 5-10 years of experience could easily include 100-200K of Restricted Stock over 4 years.
This is "essential" part of the comp , as , for me, personally, without it, I would really struggle to keep up with my mortgage and bills.

RSU payouts every year could be 30-50% of overall comp.

At 150K of RSU over 4 years (37.5K per year) and calling that 40% of overall comp would imply overall comp of 94K and base+bonus portion of just 56K.

I dont know anyone who would accept such skewed compensation especially considering RSUs are normally paid out 1 time per year.

[ondys]

Originally Posted by FioSJ

At 150K of RSU over 4 years (37.5K per year) and calling that 40% of overall comp would imply overall comp of 94K and base+bonus portion of just 56K.

I dont know anyone who would accept such skewed compensation especially considering RSUs are normally paid out 1 time per year.

In many of the above mentioned companies, people receive a yearly refresh of the RSUs..

[aramax666]

here is a possible scenario of how it would work.

base 1st year 140K

initial RSU grant 100K
1st year refresh 60K
2nd refresh 60K
3rd refresh 60K
4th refresh 60K

At the end of 4 years. You are receiving 60K of stock every year, More the first 4 years. that 60K would be ~ 30% of the overall comp. Hope that helps.

[FioSJ]

Originally Posted by aramax666

here is a possible scenario of how it would work.

base 1st year 140K

initial RSU grant 100K
1st year refresh 60K
2nd refresh 60K
3rd refresh 60K
4th refresh 60K

At the end of 4 years. You are receiving 60K of stock every year, More the first 4 years. that 60K would be ~ 30% of the overall comp. Hope that helps.

Thx.
Seems I need to change careers