List of costs of Florida living - what'd I forget? (Sarasota: comparable sales, sales)

[03bluecoupe]

This isn't really intended to be a thread to discuss items that I've already listed below, it's to identify items not on my list that I've overlooked and need to factor in/evaluate for a possible move.

My wife and I live in NY. I'm retired and she will probably retire within a year or two. She has the capability of working remotely so we are considering moving to Florida within a year. We've been down to the Placida, Port Charlotte, North Port, Englewood area for a couple of weeks recently and we REALLY liked the area. We are going back for two months this summer to see first hand just how "bad" the heat and humidity are. But if we move there, we will have a house with a pool.

On to the questions. We'd buy a concrete home about between 2000 and 2500 square feet with an inground pool and in an X zone. Homeowners/wind/flood insurance is a concern and I'm contacting an insurance broker to get a ballpark number on what that may be. I realize there are a GREAT number of factors in that; area, construction, roof, shutters, etc, etc, etc. The real estate taxes are a "known" as well. What concerns me is the "hidden"/unknown costs of living in Florida.

I also understand that you can plan on having to have the outside of the house repainted every 3-7 years which can run 3-4 grand at the low end.

Here's a list of known costs that I need to nail down:

House/real estate Taxes (I'm aware of the Homestead Exemption)
School taxes? (I don't know if they have those in Fla or not - have to investigate)
Home/wind/flood insurance (I know about the upcoming increase in flood)
Home exterior painting
Electric/gas
Water/sewer (potentially)
Vehicle registrations
HOA fees (potentially)
Home pest control
Garbage (potentially)

So unknown costs are a concern of mine, I don't like surprises. What have I
overlooked that needs to be on the list?

[Cardiff by the Sea]

I moved here last May, so as a newbie, I am not the best source of information on these issues. I will comment with what I think I know.

School taxes are part of the real estate taxes. We have a commercial property and the school tax portion went up much more than the actual real estate taxes on a percentage basis. And I don't think you can challenge the assessment on the school portion. Taxes are based on what the assessor thinks your property is worth going on comparable sales in the neighborhood. It is not based on what you paid for the property. What ever the prior owners paid, you should budget at least 20% more as they will reassess the property. After that, the increase on a the real estate section, not the ad valorum, is capped at 3% increase for owner occupied. the timing of the tax is bizarre. The bill comes due in November and is based on the property status at the beginning of the year (10 months earlier).

I put off registering my car as long as possible. It cost me $440 to do the deed. Part of this is a first year cost.

Water and sewer are very expensive. Many houses here are on septic. Septics need maintenance every 4-5 years and it is about $400 I think, but you don't have the monthly sewer costs so it is probably a wash in terms of ongoing costs. In some places sewer is being brought in. I think the costs to do the sewer connection if you are in a required conversion zone are about $7,000, but you can finance this through the government and pay it off over 20 years.

Don't know if this exists outside the city of Sarasota, but in the city, you can have 2 water meters. One covers the house and sewer charges are based on the water used in the house. The other meter runs the irrigation and sewer charges are not applied to that water. Having a well on the property for irrigation is a huge bonus IMHO. Don't know about well water for drinking. It has to be treated.

Some communities have community development districts which bill residents for the development of community wide amenities. Many people try to avoid these as they are like a second HOA charge.

You mention zone X. I am obsessed by elevation and flood zones, and I did not know what zone X was. Had to go to FEMA to look it up. It is the same as zone C. I think zone C will be more understandable to people as you talk about it.

If you have someone mow your yard, that will be $70-80 per month. Our annual contract for pest control is $280. There may be other services that are cheaper, but we really like the company we use.

If you buy an older house, it most likely will not meet current hurricane codes. There are rules about how many nails have to be used at the connections. You can have inspections done that are called 4 point inspections and wind mitigation inspections that give you discounts. (hip roofs are cheaper to insure than gable roofs and the wind mit checks the number of nails). If you get a new roof, they bring the nail requirement up to date but not necessarily the tie down.

The 4 point only has to be done on older homes. I think the cut off is 1987 but I am really not sure about that. The 4 point verifies that the electrical and plumbing etc are up to current code. I consider regular homeowners insurance to be obscenely expensive. What we paid $800 for in CA is $2,000 here.

Moss grows on things so you may need the house power washed annually. Roofs don't last long. A "lifetime" shingle roof doesn't last over 15 years. Of course the cost depends on the house. We just had a 2 story 1500 sq foot house re-roofed for $7,200. Tile roofs last about 25 and metal about 50. The metal roofs are very expensive IMHO.

You are wise to have focused on a concrete block house as opposites to wood. The termites here are a problem.

A professional inspection of a house will cost $400-500 and it is worth every penny.

If I have given you any misinformation, I am sure someone will correct me.

[DragonflyMom]

Here is something you didn't mention...groceries. We moved to Venice from the metro Atlanta area in October, and we have been very surprised at the cost of groceries. We shopped at a Publix in Atlanta, and still shop at Publix here, but the groceries are noticeably higher. One specific example...Public sells boxes of cookies in their deli section, 2 dozen in a box. We like them a lot, and in Atlanta the box was anywhere from $2.80 to 2 for $5.00.

Here in Venice, that same box is over $4.00 and only once have they been on buy-one-get-one. I know this is not a comprehensive analysis of the grocery costs, but groceries are higher here.

On the plus side...we are both retired from the federal government and and have health insurance through the federal plan. (My husband becomes eligible for Medicare in March, and our fed plan will become our Medicare supplement plan). To our great surprise, our health insurance cost was cut in half simply by moving to Florida!! We were not able to keep our Aetna plan, so we selected a Blue Cross plan with comparable coverage. Our premiums went from about $800 per month EACH to about $400 per month each. !!!!!!! I don't know if your situation will benefit from this, but it's something to check.

[03bluecoupe]

Thanks - I guess I just took groceries for granted but will pay attention to them when we spend the time there this summer. I can also check out online probably.

I don't *think* our health insurance would drop but it's certainly worth a phone call to our carrier and ask! My Dad told me; "if you don't ask, the answer is no so you have nothing to lose"

Cardiff: Thanks for the examples - I'm investigating the costs of what I have listed but you can never have too much information!

[Dollydo]

I have owned property here since 1985, and, lived in various locations since 1994. Here are a couple of things I have noted:

Mildew can be a real issue, so, pressure washing and paint restoring can get expensive. Also termites can eat your deck and other wood 1,2,3...yes, treated wood must be used outside and it is much more expensive than regular wood, however, those little buggers will get it too... eventually.

The yard, one needs a good service to treat the yard for fungus, cinch bugs and generally poor sandy soil. Your HOA
will most likely do the common areas, however, no treatments to your yard. Mine service runs $300 a year. Plus I pay $50 every other week, to have my grass mowed, edged and so on. I use to do it myself, however, it just got too hot for me in the summer months.

Also, before buying look closely at how the water runs off your property, I didn't. The first year I lived in this house, it rained and rained and I had almost 10" of standing water in 80% of my backyard, my dogs had their own swimming pool, it was a mess. Took weeks for the soil to get back to normal, I couldn't even mow, the muck would suck my shoes right off. I had two French drains put in, did the trick. Standing water is a real issue here, the water table is high.

Maint fee...watch out, can escalate quickly, and, what about special assessments? One condo/townhouse I lived at, raised my assoc fee from $150 a month to $250 a month and in the same year slapped a $11,000 new roof assessment on each homeowner. This is a big issue in Florida.

The sun will fry everything out there, including an asphalt roof, and the roofers here know the game, plus, permitting is not cheap and homeowners insurance has many cavats that are not present up north. For instance, last year I had to have my roof inspected, cost me $100, however, I was told by the inspector, because my roof was a roof over and not permitted (previous owner about 5 years ago), I could not be given a life over 5 years and would most likely be FORCED to replace the roof in order to continue to have homeowners insurance...What?

Lastly, I would try and stay away from a flood zone, I am in one, as I am 1 block from the Manatee River, I pay an arm and a leg for this insurance.

Just my thoughts, good luck!

[03bluecoupe]

Excellent point on drainage - Thanks!

I also didn't think about the lawn fungus 'cause I didn't know about it.

I'll do my own mowing - relatively new ztr so why not. Will also do my own yearly pressure washing.
I plan on ZERO wood as I am aware of the termite issue.

I tried to update the initial post to add that X zone (and apparently C, need to check on that) is a non-flood designation. We won't even look at anything in a designated flood zone. (yes, I'm aware of the rezoning)

We're limiting our search to homes built in 2003 or later so meeting hurricane standards should be taken care of but will certainly not be taken for granted. From that I've read, it seems like a terracotta roof with a moisture barrier beneath is is probably what we'll look for in a roof.

Thanks for the replies - good info! Keep 'em coming.

[Picshooter]

How about cable, internet & phone?

[03bluecoupe]

Excellent one picshooter! One that often gets forgotten about.

I tried to update the original post with the suggestions from you folks for completeness but apparently you aren't allowed to edit a post after 90 minutes for some reason.

[Cardiff by the Sea]

Originally Posted by dlking58

On the plus side...we are both retired from the federal government and and have health insurance through the federal plan. (My husband becomes eligible for Medicare in March, and our fed plan will become our Medicare supplement plan). To our great surprise, our health insurance cost was cut in half simply by moving to Florida!! We were not able to keep our Aetna plan, so we selected a Blue Cross plan with comparable coverage. Our premiums went from about $800 per month EACH to about $400 per month each. !!!!!!! I don't know if your situation will benefit from this, but it's something to check.

My insurance was with Aetna through Costco both in CA and here. The premium was about the same when I moved here. Aetna was dropping CA coverage through Costco in CA but still offering it here. Then in January, the cost of my coverage jumped from $544 per month to just under $1100 per month. Yes my premium doubled with no warning or explanation. Not due to my over use of service. The only services I have used in 3 years is annual checkup.

I turn 65 in June and will be eligible for Medicare. I have applied for short term health coverage that will be total cost of $650 for the 5 months (a little over $100 per month) until I become Medicare eligible. Still in the 2 week review of my application so don't know if I am approved yet.

The point of this post is to say health insurance is wildly unpredictable. I expect that is true anywhere in the country.

[macrodome2]

Many items others have covered. Health insurance should be much lower in FL than NY. Services (haircuts, house cleaning, lawn cutting) are less than up in NJ, where we're from. Home insurance companies up north now have to recover from Sandy, so our home insurance in NJ is actually higher ($1400) this year than in FL ($1200). FL house is 6 years old, concrete block, tile roof 2400 sq ft, single story, with hip roof- least expensive specs.

We're in Venice and electric is much cheaper here than in NJ. I've never gone over $85/mo here and I've never been under $125/mo up north with summer months hitting $350-$400. Since you don't need heat often, your heat will probably be electric and you won't have an oil or gas bill like you do up north.

The condo/HOA/CDD thing. Condo associations take care of the outside of your building (roof, paint, windows, etc) as well as all of the grounds maintenance, so condo fees are going to be higher than HOA. HOA fees always include care of the common grounds and areas and may or may not include individual plots as well. Listings in HOA communities that include maintenance for the individual property will generally have "maintenance included" in the description. That would be something to ask if you are interested in an HOA type community. Benefits of the HOA or deed restricted community are the common amenities and for some, knowing the rules prohibit your neighbor from leaving their car up on blocks for weeks, or having a boat/RV/ or commercial vehicle in the driveway. Advantages of NOT being in a deed restricted community is having more freedom to do what you want with your property.

CDD fees are a relatively new concept where the builder passes the cost of the infrastructure (water lines, sewer lines, storm water drainage, etc.) off to the buyer by way of a tax as opposed to a higher priced home. CDD fees are found in deed restricted/HOA and condo communities. There are two parts to the CDD, the bond, and the maintenance. The bond generally lasts for 20 years. Maintenance never goes away. From what I've seen the bond is about 70% of the CDD so after 20 years the amount is reduced by about 70%. The CDD amount is collected in your property taxes and is tax deductible. The condo or HOA fees are not.

Some folks on C-D feel very strongly about not being in a CDD or HOA based community. That's a decision, you'll have to make weighing the pros and cons.