Florida's Brightline & Tri-Rail deadliest in USA! (Tampa, Sarasota: how much, subsidized)

[beach43ofus]

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/b...orida-11089400

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/lo...ted/383293002/

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/...est-train-line

Some on this forum are constantly citing the fact that Florida is backwards because it lacks mass transit (light and heavy rail in particular).

Well, Florida has rail mass transit (just not here), and its killing people at a record clip...its the most deadly in the USA per mile of track.

Its also losing Billions of Dollars, and ridership is pathetic. Florida taxpayers are on the hook for much of the losses too.

I guess those who love passenger rail would just call these deaths, and the lost Billions of Dollars, collateral damage. I can't see it that way, and I dont want to see any more deaths, or lost money.

I certainly dont want it to happen here. Please remember this if and when the time comes for us to vote on rail transit here.

[theurbanfiles]

Obviously of course, the sincerest wishes and prayers for those lost and their families.

However, I don't know that this necessarily fits (at least, IMO), as a reason or argument against mass transit. No one is arguing against the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, but yet hundreds of people have committed suicide by jumping from it. In addition, in a recent study, 8 of the 10 most dangerous metropolitan areas in the US for pedestrians are in Florida (with Sarasota-Bradenton 4th), a problem that has taken the lives of over 49,000 Americans between 2008 and 2017.

In addition, it's important to note that in the case of that problem, fewer are by suicide, whereas in the case of the fatalities along rail corridors in Florida, 30-60% are considered suicides-why so high compared to some places? IDK.. similar to how you don't often hear about people "stepping out" into traffic to get killed as much, someone considering suicide might be more likely to consider "the unfamiliar" as options, and rail, in Florida in general, is unfamiliar. The reason this is important to note is that... sadly, people commit suicide far too often in general.. and whether there are trains available to jump into is frankly irrelevant to total volume of numbers (there were 3,552 suicides in Florida last year, for reference... triple the national homicide rate). Meaning that people are thrice as likely to off themself as they are to be offed by others as a victim of crime. Horrifying and crazy.

I guess I'm just not seeing how there's a correlation between rail and increase in death/suicide/safety risk on the whole, at least not on any sort of large scale. Had the articles cited more of the problems with the networks causing accidents as opposed to places where it's less of an issue (at least, per capita, like say the northeast corridor), it would be more helpful.

As to your other points, they probably hold much more merit and worthiness of debate (public taxpayer funding, lack of economic sustainability, low ridership, etc.). They would require longer debate, and would in a number of cases depend on previous priorities, ideological leanings, etc. Of course, I would be remiss without saying that billions of dollars of taxpayer money is also put into roads, parking areas, housing, etc. that are subsidized (and often in both suburban and urban environments this is the case). Personally, as someone who likes to be pretty balanced/nuanced in political leanings, I generally favor market solutions to urban and state challenges. That said, if more mass transit options were available to me, it goes without saying that I would consider pursuing them. I think it's more of a context based situation. I would agree with you that at least at this point, heavy or light rail really doesn't make sense for Sarasota-Bradenton, it just doesn't fit the context of the area. But in terms of say having some easier way to get back and forth between Tampa and Saint Petersburg? Or extending the existing TECO streetcar line? Those are things I would be more open to hearing, but of course with substantive discussion on the cost, logistics, etc. first too. I believe that privatized rail solutions can work-for instance, Hong Kong's MTR, which is arguably a Top 5 system on the planet, and is completely privatized.

[beach43ofus]

I agree with the privatized mass transit. I'd also go along if ridership were strong, and more steps were being taken to make it safer. Running high speed trains right through the middle of densely populated areas was a risky idea from day 1, and now we are seeing the results of it. I appreciate your civil response. Points well taken.

[blueherons]

People are purposely trying to outrun a locomotive with horns blaring and whistles, bells, and lights.

This isn't TriRail or Brightline's fault.

It's stupid people fault.

The trains path doesn't change, people jump in front of a moving train.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by blueherons

People are purposely trying to outrun a locomotive with horns blaring and whistles, bells, and lights.

This isn't TriRail or Brightline's fault.

It's stupid people fault.

The trains path doesn't change, people jump in front of a moving train.

They have high speed trains going right through the middle of highly populated areas as well, so its not just suicide victims and really dumb people.

It was really stupid of Governor Scott to allow this rail line to be used instead of the line that was further West away from the population centers.

Many more will die from accidents of no fault of their own.

This is why cities like NYC, Chicago, and Boston have high speed rail going below ground in tunnels, and above ground, but not AT GRADE LEVEL. Very poor design and location for high speed rail.

[joshan]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

This is why cities like NYC, Chicago, and Boston have high speed rail going below ground in tunnels, and above ground, but not AT GRADE LEVEL. Very poor design and location for high speed rail.

Just to make sure this is accurate (as I live in Chicago). Only the Loop (extreme downtown area) has the elevated trains. Really this is because there was nowhere else to lay tracks it is so congested. There is zero free land anywhere.

Once you get out of the loop they run at ground level and go through the heart of every town. Pretty much main street downtown in every city it passes through.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by joshan

Just to make sure this is accurate (as I live in Chicago). Only the Loop (extreme downtown area) has the elevated trains. Really this is because there was nowhere else to lay tracks it is so congested. There is zero free land anywhere.

Once you get out of the loop they run at ground level and go through the heart of every town. Pretty much main street downtown in every city it passes through.

Thx! I knew part of it was above grade, but not how much. Is some of it underground too?

[blueherons]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

.

Many more will die from accidents of no fault of their own.

.

Again, the trains do not leave their paths. Humans went in the path of the train. Every single death was the fault of the person who tried to outrun a speeding locomotive and lost.

Some were suicides and some were Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection.

The Brightline/Virgin has been an amazing addition to South Florida.

I wouldn't worry about it coming to SW Florida. The area isn't really populated enough for it to work.

Brightline and TriRail are on two sets of different tracks.

[beach43ofus]

Why are Briteline trains the deadliest of all trains in the USA? There is no disputing that they are the dealiest by a wide margin, so why are they?

[joshan]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Why are Briteline trains the deadliest of all trains in the USA? There is no disputing that they are the dealiest by a wide margin, so why are they?

Good question... Curious on the average age of the people being hit. Possibly it is related to having such a high percentage of retirees?