Gable roof - how much of a stigma is it? (Palm Aire: cul-de-sac, short sale)

[JoeyRicker]

Hi all,
We're looking at buying an older home in Palm Aire. The roof is a modified-gable and so the insurance cost is more and thats a problem. But I'm MORE concerned that if we ever need to resell this home, we may have a very difficult time. So my question to the forum is this - how much of a stigma do you feel a gable roof is? In other words, if you were looking to buy a home, would you avoid all non-hip roofs?

Thanks!

[Big House]

Originally Posted by JoeyRicker

Hi all,
We're looking at buying an older home in Palm Aire. The roof is a modified-gable and so the insurance cost is more and thats a problem. But I'm MORE concerned that if we ever need to resell this home, we may have a very difficult time. So my question to the forum is this - how much of a stigma do you feel a gable roof is? In other words, if you were looking to buy a home, would you avoid all non-hip roofs?

Thanks!

I would avoid buying a home that has a gable roof in a high wind zone area (which most of Florida is in). I have worked on a number of large design / build projects for the Navy in high wind zone areas and hip roofs are a much better aerodynamic model. But, because of my experiences I probably understand the advantages that a hip roof has in lieu of a gable roof, than most people. The insurance companies evidently understand the cost issues involved, but the losses really are pushed down to the home owner in the event of a problem.

Gable roofs are less costly to design and build, that is why they are used in many areas of the country. In Florida, with the advent of much understanding of wind speed / forces, hip roofs are now prevalent in almost all new homes 2002 and later. There is much more information / requirements stipulated in the International Building Code which since 2002 has become the prevalent code adopted by most jurisdictions. Before that BOCA, the Uniform Building Code, and other codes and revised editions where predominantly used and modified by local jurisdictions, but not uniformly accepted throughout the country. Local modifications still apply - especially relative to fire and safety interpretations.

Older homes are more vulnerable to damages caused by high winds as well, because of the design changes that have improved bracing requirements, and how the roof framing is tied down to the structural systems - all the way down to and including the foundation selection. In newer homes, a lot of design changes have imposed improvements on how all of this is to be done.

I would say that generally, the inspection process has improved checking to see that these standards are utilized in construction, but when the work is installed and inspected in the field there is still a lot of things that are missed, overlooked, not understood, and therefore not properly being incorporated. Keeping construction costs affordable, trades generally will install things the way they always have, or the way they did on the last job, rather than follow the precise instructions on the drawings and specifications. Many times the individuals installing the work don't know how to read, or understand the requirements of the drawings - if they get to see them at all. That is why really good supervision in the field is so important.

Sorry to ramble . . ., but I thought I would offer a little more information, and why.

[SoFLGal]

Originally Posted by JoeyRicker

Hi all,
We're looking at buying an older home in Palm Aire. The roof is a modified-gable and so the insurance cost is more and thats a problem. But I'm MORE concerned that if we ever need to resell this home, we may have a very difficult time. So my question to the forum is this - how much of a stigma do you feel a gable roof is? In other words, if you were looking to buy a home, would you avoid all non-hip roofs?

Thanks!

If it were me I would think twice about buying a home with a gable roof. That's one of the big factors that the insurance companies use when calculating insurance rates. Whenever I call around for rates the first question they ask is, what type of roof does it have?

Obviously, if they think it's that big of a deal and it's more costly to insure than I would assume it's less safe and more of a liability in reference to hurricanes and high winds.

You have to look at it from a selling point of view as well. Unless you plan on living in this home forever the people looking to buy when you get ready to sell will be contemplating the same thing as you.

I guess it would also depend on what kind of deal you're getting, I suppose. If you're getting an incredible price for the house than I might reconsider.

[FLBob]

Most people don't select to avoid gable roof homes when shopping for a home. In fact many people like the aesthetic of the gable roof. A frame house will be avoided by many home shoppers.

If I were to purchase a home with a gable roof I would look at having a structural engineer design a bracing system, have it permitted and installed. Then on resale you could market the work done as a feature. In the mean time you have the benefit of a home that will withstand the wind, and that would qualify for insurance discounts for wind mitigation.

[HenryHelmhazzard]

Big House gives good food for thought, as always.

There's probably some kind of equilibrium in purchase price increase to compensate for the insurance decrease ance vice versa... everything likes to find balance.

If all other things are equal and you pay an extra, oh, $30,000 for a hip roof (assuming you could ever discern what premium you're paying just for the roof type), insurance savings probably roughly equals opportunity cost of the extra money you had to pay for the roof. At resale you might recoup the higher price paid 'for the roof'. Sort of a zero-sum game, short of catastrophic events, which is what insurance is there for. I can't speak to the odds of roof survival in a major hurricane, but I can tell you that you wouldn't want to live in an area that's been hit afterward, no matter what the state of your roof, if you have any choice in the matter. No power, no potable water, general social upheaval... the roof and most of the material possessions therein are the least of your concerns.

Our home was built in 1986 with mixed gable and hip (there was an addition in the 1990s), and we did a wind mitigation inspection and that brought insurance costs back down a bit. Hip and gable homes are quite varied in our particular area, and historically it seems the only factors really driving prices have been square footage, lakefront, and the now ubiquitous upgraded cabinetry/granite/stainless steel kitchen renovations (and all that implies), or the lack thereof.

Personally, I don't think there's much of a stigma in resale at all. Like I said, these things tend to balance out, cost-wise in the long run. Pay 'X' less now, sell for 'X' less later, pay 'Y' more now, sell for 'Y' more later. TANSTAAFL.

What I wonder about new building codes is this: if you could peek under the political/business hood, has the never-ending legislation been more driven to reduce the claim costs to the mega-insurance agencies and to bolster the construction economy? I'm not sure if the benefit to consumers justifies the costs. (vaguely relevant anecdote: to simply add a window to our home is an act of congress, and costs 3-4 times what it would've only a few years ago. The new window, while lovely and practically bulletproof, wouldn't make a hill of beans of difference in a house filled with pre-hurricane rated windows and doors.)

Ack. Now I'm rambling too.

[Synergy1]

I am not so sure that most home buyers of older homes would care about the roof shape as long as the home is updated to withstand to meet or exceed current wind codes. This does not mean the roof must be a hip design but a hip design can help with keeping the front and rear of the home intact when winds reach 100 mph and higher but the rest of the home must be able to remain intact. A hip roof is not a design that ensures safety but it can assist to a small degree.

As a former PA home builder I am more concerned about a Florida's home age and if the home is equipped to withstand hurricanes. If it were me I must have hurricane straps tied to the foundation from trusses down. 3 tabbed roof shingles are a must unless you need a terrecotta roof costing twice or more than a asphalt type. The asphalt roof must be rated to withstand high winds along with storm shutters with pins shot into the outside walls for all windows to be bolted.

Our home is 3,300sf, on the water, 4 years old and we have a gable roof and a pool. It looks much better than a plain gabled roof and we didn't loose a thing during the storms. A hip roof is a tad more difficult to build and not all hip roof styled homes can look good while able to withstand highwinds and rain.

[d4g4m]

If a home was built after 1994 with what appears to be 'gable' roof, it it not a structural part of the roof. The rafters/truss system is designed as a 'hip' roof, covered with plywood as a normal hip design and the gable facade is added for visual architecture. Most are added as a partial gable and are not built to the roof edge with a couple of feet of the hip showing. The gable 'look' adds thousands of dollars to the cost of the roof.

[JoeyRicker]

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

I guess it would also depend on what kind of deal you're getting, I suppose. If you're getting an incredible price for the house than I might reconsider.

Thank you for the info SoFLGal and FLBob. Since you both are in the biz, would you be willing to offer your opinion on this deal? Its in Palm Aire, built in 1988, its 2800 s/q ft. 3 brd 2.5 bth, (plus an office), new roof, really nice pool/lanai on a small lake, kitchen and bathrooms need to be updated -- price $360K. We've looked a good amount so I feel like its an ok deal, but an outsiders opinion would be good to have.


And thanks to all others for the excellent input.

[SoFLGal]

Originally Posted by JoeyRicker

Thank you for the info SoFLGal and FLBob. Since you both are in the biz, would you be willing to offer your opinion on this deal? Its in Palm Aire, built in 1988, its 2800 s/q ft. 3 brd 2.5 bth, (plus an office), new roof, really nice pool/lanai on a small lake, kitchen and bathrooms need to be updated -- price $360K. We've looked a good amount so I feel like its an ok deal, but an outsiders opinion would be good to have.


And thanks to all others for the excellent input.

Here's my opinion and what I would look at if pricing the property or if I was speaking with someone looking to submit an offer.

When I look at properties to price this is how I do it. I try to find properties that have sold in the same subdivision. Next I look at year built and subtract five years from the year built and then add five years to the year built. So, the range on this specific property would be homes built from 1983-1993. Next I'll look at the square footage. The general rule of thumb is a 20% margin. So, I'll take 2800 sq ft and subtract 20% and add 20%. This will give me 2240-3360 sq ft. Since this home has three bedrooms I will try to use homes with three bedrooms. Possibly four if I feel the other criteria are pretty similar. The comps must be sold within the last six months and the more recent the better the comp.

So, briefly here's my criteria I'm going to use. Must be in Palm Aire subdivision, year built from 1983-1993, 2240-3360 sq ft under air, at least three bedrooms, and not sold longer than six months ago.

I came up with six properties that match that criteria:
5672 County Lakes Dr, 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, over sized cul-de-sac lot-19,994 sq ft, 3 garage, solar heated pool, wood flooring, built in 1985, 2668 sq ft, original list price was $465K and it sold as a short sale on July 13, 09 for $255K.

5516 County Lakes Trl, 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, oversized lot-12,240 sq ft, wood burning fireplace, central vac, large screened lanai with resurfaced pool, built in 1985, 2372 sq ft under air, original list was $315K, and it sold on June 30, 2009 for $259K. This was an estate sale.

5634 County Lakes Dr, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 40' pool and two A/C zones, built in 1992, 2298 sq ft under air, original list was $345K and it sold for $295K on Aug 14, 09.

5629 County Lakes Dr, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, has a pool, built in 1986, 2504 sq ft under air, original list was $349K and it sold for $325K on May 15, 2009.

7421 Links Ct, 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, oversized lot-13,547 sq ft, 3 car garage, fire place, overlooking the 12th tee of The Lakes course, built in 1993, 2303 under air, original list was $379K and it sold on June 12, 09 for $369K.

7574 Links, 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, very large lot-24,698 sq ft, has a den, pool, 2.5 garage, new tile roof, newere A/C. built in 1989, 3097 under air, original list was $450K and it sold for $405K on Aug 10, 09.

Hope this helps you

[JoeyRicker]

"Hope this helps you "

It sure does. I really appreciate the infomation.