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In the years that I have lived here, I have lived in Greenwood, the U-District, and Shoreline, and I have lived in Des Moines, Renton, Kent, and Auburn. My longest periods have been in Kent and Des Moines.
Just to share some demographic information as I firmly believe that the demographic make-up is the reason why some of these areas have such a bad rap. I am a single female of color. No kids and now a steady middle income. Very privileged to have three degrees (don't let me spelling and grammar fool you!). I used to worked in the International District until our location moved to SLU. Now I work at a government job and I'm located in Pioneer's Square.
On this board, it is common to get threads from individuals asking about possible places to stay that are kid friendly and have easy access to downtown Seattle. And far too many of these threads have posters who say that they heard that south King County has a bad reputation before they even have stepped foot in the NW. Really? How is it bad? And how did you hear it? Then you have those posters who do live in the area and they will say that you'll want to avoid these areas. Why? Have you lived there?
Is it really about crime? I grew up in a small town in Illinois and it had a higher crime index rate than Kent. But, in the last year, all of the high profile violent crimes involving stabbings and shootings took place in Seattle. Yet, people are still moving into the city in spite of a few instances of violent crime. So if crime is a factor, why do people want to move into Seattle? Sure, there are safer neighborhoods than the Central District but are these areas immune to car theft and burglary, home invasions, and assaults?
Is it about the schools? That's a much harder topic for me to engage in because I do not have kids. Perhaps someone who has actual experience with schools in the east side, city proper, and south side can share on this.
Finally, is it about class? As mentioned above, I think the bad rap really comes from the combination of the south side being more working and lower middle class than the east side and pockets of Seattle. I get it. Like attracts like but then when I read posts from these prospective individuals, the incomes they share seem to fit more with the crowd in the south than those on the east. So does that take us back to the crime issue and/or the schools? Could it be about race?
Last edited by The Siobhan; 10-07-2012 at 09:59 AM..
I definitely do think race is a huge factor. However, Auburn back then and pretty even now is very white-- but still has a white trash tag to it. Which is why is supposed to be amazing that our governor is from Auburn. I remember reading an article in the Seattle paper where it spoke of the White flight to the north. And when my family got burgled, I even had friends tell me that I have proof that Southside = bad and that it wouldn't have happened "up here" (as there were more White people)-- these friends are pure Seattle natives.
I've attended schools in Highline SD and Bellevue SD-- and I remember seeing a vast difference in quality of education, but even the kids were different. My Highline SD peers were ... harder. There were more... innocence (naivete) from the Bellevue kids. But that's a class thing, not a race thing.
I definitely do think race is a huge factor. However, Auburn back then and pretty even now is very white-- but still has a white trash tag to it. Which is why is supposed to be amazing that our governor is from Auburn. I remember reading an article in the Seattle paper where it spoke of the White flight to the north. And when my family got burgled, I even had friends tell me that I have proof that Southside = bad and that it wouldn't have happened "up here" (as there were more White people)-- these friends are pure Seattle natives.
I've attended schools in Highline SD and Bellevue SD-- and I remember seeing a vast difference in quality of education, but even the kids were different. My Highline SD peers were ... harder. There were more... innocence (naivete) from the Bellevue kids. But that's a class thing, not a race thing.
It's like a conversation I listened to a few weeks back. It involved recommending neighborhoods of Seattle to someone. To sum up: "You might want to look into the CD. There's still a lot of Black people there but it's on the up and up".
It's like a conversation I listened to a few weeks back. It involved recommending neighborhoods of Seattle to someone. To sum up: "You might want to look into the CD. There's still a lot of Black people there but it's on the up and up".
the CD is slowly experiencing gentrification. I think it will still take 10 years or so to be great, there is still too many low income housing units there.
I think it's " all of the above."
South King County has more poverty than the eastside. But instead of thinking " I can take advantage of lower housing costs and live in a nice neighborhood a couple of miles away from a bad neighborhood" people decide that the entire area is "bad", and there's definitely a racial component to it. People will say they value diversity, and that's why they love Redmond so much, because there are East Indians and Chinese and Japanese and Koreans, etc. What they're not saying is " I value diversity, but I won't live near Blacks or Hispanics because they make neighborhoods unsafe."
And sure, it's a class thing. The Seattle area has high housing prices compared to a lot of the US, so if somebody from Florida comes here, and they have a household income of 60k, they're shocked how little their housing money can go. For 200k in Florida, they're used to living in safe, upper middle class neighborhoods, the "eastside" equivalent.
And it's a schools thing. On the eastside, I'd say on avergae 75% of the schools are really good. And the test scores are really high. In South King County, maybe 20% of the schools are good, and the test scores are low. It doesn't mean that your child cannot get a good education going to a south King County school, and those schols produce plenty of successful people. But it's the same thing: Since there are some bad neighborhoods in South King County, since there are some bad schools in South King County, since there is higher crime in South King County, people whitewash" no pun intended" the whole area and decide it's all crime ridden, low income with bad schools. Because people are ignorant. I live in Renton, only a mile or so from Skyway, a neighborhood thought of as dangerous. I don't walk around "downtown" Skyway at 2 AM, and there's no reason for me to. Yet people will decide that based on my zip code, I must be taking my life into my own hands because they read about a shooting there or they know there's a concentration of lower income African Americans there, etc. But a mile away can be like a million miles. It's really quiet where I live, and my neighbors are great. My street is really diverse. On my block of around a dozen houses,there are three black families, a Chinese family, a Hispanic family, an Arab guy married to a French woman, a white guy married to a Filipino woman, a white guy married to a black woman, a black guy married to a white woman,a few white families, and an old cranky Jew(me) and his patient Heinz 57 white wife.
I think it is also partly that people want to be around people like themselves, if not racially then economically.
I think there are assumptions about class and race, yes. When we were looking at places to live out here, someone quipped to me, "White Center isn't." Which was a dumb thing to say, and not really true -- and even if it was true, the underlying suggestion would have been ridiculous.
I live in Renton, southeast of town. We have one rental house on our block where the residents are a little skeevy, but the rest of the neighborhood is perfectly pleasant -- and we're a melting pot of whites, blacks, Hispanics, Japanese, a mixed-race couple, and a lesbian couple. It's clean and quiet here. Not that I encourage or endorse it, but I sometimes forget to lock our door at night. I've never felt threatened here. I can walk down the street without fear of anything nefarious awaiting me.
But yes, I think in general, the south suburbs are seen as more working-class neighborhoods, and with that comes a whole range of assumptions. People hear about a crime in one of the towns around here, or they hear that the schools aren't very good, and they jump to conclusions, because it's easier than thinking. But I think Renton is a very nice little town.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500
The Seattle area has high housing prices compared to a lot of the US, so if somebody from Florida comes here, and they have a household income of 60k, they're shocked how little their housing money can go. For 200k in Florida, they're used to living in safe, upper middle class neighborhoods, the "eastside" equivalent.
People from other states are looking for Sammamish or Mercer Island on a Florida, Oklahoma or Texas budget. When they look at school reviews, crime maps and demographics they almost always ask for locals on the forum to find them the impossible - great schools, no crime and low rent/home prices. Much of South King County provides a good compromise.
As a transplant, I always read about the "meth" problem. Like op said though, the posts never really seem to have the tone of personal experience. Every time I hear about crime in Tacoma or federal way it is in the tone of a running joke. It's like "yeah I'm not surprised" or "thats what happens when you live in kent" but the comments never go into further detail and only attract more sarcastic replies.
Im black and from the south but during my two trips here obviously I noticed maybe a handfull of black people during my stay, but for whatever reason I'd say 1/3 were friendly. They also were people that worked transportation. At first i was giddy and wanted to see what black people in seattle were like. When I was up on Fremont the black people wouldn't even look in my direction when at the bus stops, so I'm not sure if that accounts for anything.
Can someone name the safe affordable neighborhoods or communities that first come to mind in the south? I'm from the south of USA and I just find it funny when people say ANY area in Seattle or near is dangerous. Where I'm from, I remember it was so bad we had to turn our tvs off by 9 so people wouldn't try to break in our house. are these areas in Tacoma as bad as most areas in the south of the USA?
Well... really, when it comes to meth, the real worries are actually out in the country/rural areas... better cover for meth labs.
The safe affordable neighborhoods/communities in the south been oft repeated on this forum.
As for your last question: Do you know that C.O.P.S. is often filmed in Lakewood area (next to Tacoma)? So yes, we do have some bad areas. But Lakewood got some nice beautiful homes, i.e., good areas. With Tacoma, general rule of thumb is to stay north (and out of the South/Southeast Tacoma). If however you have more time to spare, you can individually check each places yourself and meet with the police chief to talk about the problems in the area.
I think one big difference between a place like Richmond VA, Vicksburg MS, Camden, NJ and a place like Tacoma is that in the former places, most of those areas are unsafe. Maybe there are a few safer areas, but even in the "worst" of the Seattle area neighborhoods/towns, most of the area is safe, with a few bad areas. But people are so sheltered and protected that they label the entire area as bad. For instance: Skyway. It has some nasty parts. Not Camden nasty, but parts that you might not feel comfortable walking around at night. Yet beyond that few blocks large area are perfectly respectable middle class homes, neighbors who all know each other and look out for each other, etc. Same goes for Renton. Parts of DT Renton are slighly scuzzy, parts of Renton just west of DT along Martin Luther King are a bit scuzzy, and parts of the western part of the Renton Highlands are scuzzy. So the bad parts constitute maybe 10, 15% of the whole city? Same goes for Kent and Auburn and Burien, etc.
So...You're right, Anders15. When people tell you to stay away from an area it's either not based on actual experience, or not current experience, or based on news reports from a certain area. People have gotten shot in Bellevue, but nobody suggests that Bellevue is dangerous. But if somebody gets shot in Kent, they tell you to stay away unless you're wearing bullet proof vests.
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