Could the Cleveland thing happen in Seattle? When does prying outweigh privacy concerns? (Bellevue: 2013, crimes)

[jmraz73]

If you somehow missed it, the story this week is that 3 women were discovered in Cleveland after being kidnapped and held as sex slaves for 10 years. This happened right under the nose of some unsuspecting neighbors who had no idea this was going on and some suspicious neighbors who made numerous failed attempts to get the police involved.

Reports of sex abuse, beatings inside Cleveland house

No one's talked about this here in the Seattle forum, but I'm sure there are crazy people in every corner of the country.

So two questions:

1. Could this happen here?

2. The bigger and more important question: When does prying into your neighbors affairs outweigh privacy concerns?

My thoughts:

1. Yes this could happen anywhere. I don't think anyone can really say this couldn't happen in Seattle or that we are somehow immune because such crimes are just inexplicable and so rare & absurd that you cannot make attempts at causation tied to geography.

2. Seattle has a "live and let live" type of attitude towards privacy. That's one of the many alluring qualities about living in Seattle. In fact, some might take this to the extreme and call it the "Seattle Freeze." Others might just say this is what makes Seattle a great place for people to just be left alone to live their life how they want. (Of course, there are exceptions to the rule here) So, my concern is that this may come at the cost of people looking the other way at something similar to the Cleveland situation happening here because they don't want to pry -- or at the very least just looking the other way when a more minor transgression takes place relating to domestic violence. Should we err on the side of caution and pry into our neighbors affairs if we see or even have an instinctual suspicion that something shady is going on? Would being wrong and intruding into your neighbor's personal space 99 times out of 100 be worth the benefits of being right that 1 time?

I'm sure we would all say that if we had known what was going on in Cleveland we would have intervened, but that's rarely the case where you know definitively what is going on. Most of the time, you just see small snippets of suspicious things that don't quite add up. Additionally, if the police failed to follow up, as they did in Cleveland, at what point are citizens warranted not by the law, but by the higher calling of morality, to form a mob and take actions into their own hands with the cost being the chaos that might ensue if they are wrong?

[Vinylly]

I agree with you, this could happen anywhere, even in Seattle. This is a fact of life, there are evil people everywhere. This is why the neighborhood you live in is very important.

[usernametaken]

I hate the idea of my picking my nose being on tv/internet forever, but due to so many such cases, I am hoping for increasing use of UK style CCTVs. I think it will definitely happen. Not so keen on butterfly drones, but have a feeling those will become common too.

I moved here from Cleveland almost three years ago. Since then, Cleveland had the crazy guy who killed a dozen or more black women story, a school shooting, Obama phone lady, bus driver almost TKO of misbehaving passenger, and now this. All global and/or national front page headline news. Weird.

[cocaseco]

Originally Posted by jmraz73

1. Could this happen here?

2. The bigger and more important question: When does prying into your neighbors affairs outweigh privacy concerns?

1) Of course.

2) As soon as they get a restraining order. But seriously, its a moving target that relies on sensing the social boundaries of the situation, your relationship with them and the overall situation.

[Hickory patrick]

Ugh..I think all parents need to take what ever steps to keep their children as safe as possible.. Ok, with that said I have a prob'' I live in a decent burb area, clean n decent.. and I have Neighbors across the street from me, their a decent white collar mother n father (both work ) And they have 3 little boys, ages are around 9, 7, and 3. well the boys bed room is on the 1st floor in the front part of the house and the thing that is driving me nuts is, the parents only close the boys window shades 1/3 of the time, the boys windows are around 4" tall crank out type windows.

well I work 2nd shift at which I get home around 11:30ish most nights.. and a lot of nights I can see the lights in the boys room are on and the boys are running around in their room. I sometimes see them run past the windows at midnight.. the room is brightly lit, Like a beacon that can be seen by anyone driving up or down the block, like a welcome mat, here they are... come stalk n take emm...It's crazy, me and my wife shake our heads often when we see this.. we have 2 like girls who are in bed a sleep around 8 lights out n shades long pulled closed... I fell like saying are you nut's....why are you kids a window display at midnight..I just don't know'' don't get it..

[Count David]

It could happen anywhere, good neighborhood, bad neighborhood, the country, the city.

[Inkpoe]

Originally Posted by jmraz73

I'm sure we would all say that if we had known what was going on in Cleveland we would have intervened, but that's rarely the case where you know definitively what is going on. Most of the time, you just see small snippets of suspicious things that don't quite add up. Additionally, if the police failed to follow up, as they did in Cleveland, at what point are citizens warranted not by the law, but by the higher calling of morality, to form a mob and take actions into their own hands with the cost being the chaos that might ensue if they are wrong?

Seriously, a higher calling of morality to form a mob? What a laugh. The costs is going to be beyond the chaos that ensues as they raid a home-- that sort of thinking destroys a neighborhood and leaves a huge stain. I don't want live in a neighborhood where people come together en mass and get riled up-- there's no security in that. I don't care if there's suspicions or if it turns out in fact something bad was going on. That 1 in 100 chance is NOT good enough. It would be one thing if there's a neighborhood watch working in accordance with the cops but ultimately, it's in the law's hand. A mob never does any good. This is a situation where gladly there was a Good Samaritan that could help.

There's been situations here where people/bureaucracies could taken actions, and just didn't. Like that girl in (Redmond?) who was systematically deprived of water over the course of YEARS.

The Seattle Freeze does not apply to my neighborhood. There is a house on my street that got burgled when the family went on vacation. A neighbor noticed the door opened and called the cop. When the family went on vacation the next time, they informed a couple of us (long-timers). And weirdly enough, my next door neighbor came home one day and did notice that there were suspicious activity (a guy just hanging out on the lawn... just weird) so he calls the cops and they arrested him.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by usernametaken

I moved here from Cleveland almost three years ago. Since then, Cleveland had the crazy guy who killed a dozen or more black women story, a school shooting, Obama phone lady, bus driver almost TKO of misbehaving passenger, and now this. All global and/or national front page headline news. Weird.

I think you were the glue that held it together

[usernametaken]

Haha. And the ironic thing is that last week I ran out of glue at home for my envelope and had to ask the Bellevue post office guy to lend me some.

[Vinylly]

We haven't had anything like the Cleveland incident yet but we have had several serial killer cases. The most infamous was Ted Bundy. He managed to lure young ladies off the swimming beaches and into his car with no problem(he was quite handsome and straight looking.).
I had my own experience how easy it is to get kids into a car. I was on my way home, driving on Aloha. I noticed a couple of boys chasing each other next to the street, I slowed down. Without looking, one boys ran into my car, hitting the right side mirror with his body. I stopped immediately, angered that my mirror was broken and possibly he could have broken a rib, if not bruised. I wanted to speak to their mother so I had them get into my car and I took them home. It took no persuasion for them to get into my car. Now as I think about it I should have asked where they lived or their home phone number.