WA State Supreme Court rejects bid to block I-90 light rail (Seattle: crime, house)

[RJ8089]

Someone is always trying to stop development in this state. It's absurd. We are not talking undeveloped land here!! Glad there is still some common sense left. I think most people want to see a real public transportation system like what NYC, Chicago, and D.C. have. One that actually goes far distances with multiple lines!

[sean98125]

Yes, Kemper Freeman is known far and wide for his continuous efforts to block development. The man makes the Unabomber look like the Koch Brothers.

[Ira500]

Interestingly, the opposition to light rail on I-90 didn't come from anti growth liberal environmentalists, but from Kemper Freeman, the owner of Lincoln Square and Bellevue Square, and some trucking and asphalt company executives. The trucking companies believe that having light rail on I-90 will slow down truck traffic, which might be a reasonable assumption.
But Kemper Freeman has been a light rail and transit opponent for many years. I'm guessing that he believes that light rail won't help his businesses. His businesses appeal towards upscale customers who drive to his businesses. And that if light rail came it would attract poorer people, and they'd go up to rich shoppers and panhandle, or steal from them?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Ira500

But Kemper Freeman has been a light rail and transit opponent for many years. I'm guessing that he believes that light rail won't help his businesses. His businesses appeal towards upscale customers who drive to his businesses. And that if light rail came it would attract poorer people, and they'd go up to rich shoppers and panhandle, or steal from them?

Some malls have been killed or greatly negatively effected by mass transit bringing in criminals and other trouble makers. Owings Mills Mall in MD greatly suffered after the line from Baltimore was extended there.

[branh0913]

Originally Posted by Ira500

Interestingly, the opposition to light rail on I-90 didn't come from anti growth liberal environmentalists, but from Kemper Freeman, the owner of Lincoln Square and Bellevue Square, and some trucking and asphalt company executives. The trucking companies believe that having light rail on I-90 will slow down truck traffic, which might be a reasonable assumption.
But Kemper Freeman has been a light rail and transit opponent for many years. I'm guessing that he believes that light rail won't help his businesses. His businesses appeal towards upscale customers who drive to his businesses. And that if light rail came it would attract poorer people, and they'd go up to rich shoppers and panhandle, or steal from them?

While this is a very new concept for people in Seattle, it's not so new for people in other states. Especially if you come from the midwest and south. The general assumption is the presence of public transportation will generally cause more crime to the area. This has constantly been proven wrong so many times over the years, that one has to wonder why the perception is even there. On another note, poor people actually drive more often than not. It is really someone like a yuppy who would take public transportation to a place like Lincoln Square. In many cities, the upscale and yuppy populations are asking for expansion of public transportation. Working class people also are doing this as well. Cost of gas, traffic, and long commutes by car are wearing on people. You can only expand roads so much.

It's not like Bellevue is all that hard to get to in the first place. There are a crap ton of buses that go up I-90 from downtown, and you can get direct buses to downtown in any of the surrounding cities.

Another thing, people who commit crimes are fighting for turf in their own neighborhoods. I'm sure what criminal element is out there would bother to waste their time with Bellevue, especially if they haven't done so already. Whomever this guy is, it's an irrational fear that has been debunked countless times over the years.

I saw it 20 years ago in my hometown, Kansas City, Missouri, which refuse to have a rail system themselves. Their afraid it'll increase crime in KC, when KC is already one of the most violent cities in the country. Local politics can be so irrational sometimes.

[branh0913]

Originally Posted by Andy

Some malls have been killed or greatly negatively effected by mass transit bringing in criminals and other trouble makers. Owings Mills Mall in MD greatly suffered after the line from Baltimore was extended there.

There are a ton of counter examples to this. From my personal experience, Lenox Mall and Phipps Plaza, two of the most upscale malls in the city have buses that drop off there, and are in walking distane from 2, count it 2 rail stations.. Never impacted those places.

[Xanathos]

This is one of those rare instances where stopping it was warranted. Taking away the express lanes on an already jam-packed I-90 to put in the rail - which won't alleviate that traffic issue - is absurd. The new 520 should have been engineered to have the light rail built onto it. Would have made infinitely more sense.

But, as we all know, common sense and Washington urban planning are two wholly mutually exclusive items. What we're going to end up with is significantly more gridlock problems and damage to local businesses on both sides of the lake through a proxy-battle war on cars.

[mkarch]

Originally Posted by Ira500

I'm guessing that he believes that light rail won't help his businesses. His businesses appeal towards upscale customers who drive to his businesses. And that if light rail came it would attract poorer people, and they'd go up to rich shoppers and panhandle, or steal from them?

That did happen in Baltimore where formerly nice shopping areas failed after the rail brought in poor people. In DC, most of the suburban rail stations built in the late 60's through the 80's were set in residential neighborhoods with no amenities of any kind aside from parking - presumably so there would be little reason for the riff-raff to go there. It took 20-30 years for that attitude to change and now most of the stations are surrounded by dense mixed use development. DC also does a pretty good job of keeping the metro rail secure, better than any other city I've been in.

Seattle certainly doesn't have the kind of demographics that Baltimore or DC have. But it does have a much more permissive attitude towards property crime, drug use and vagrancy. The first 3 times I rode the light rail I never saw anyone checking tickets and none of the stations I've noticed are even gated the way they are in most cities. It remains to be seen whether Seattle will commit to making the rail a safe and secure option for working people, or let it turn into another rolling mental clinic.

[flyingsaucermom]

But isn't mass transit really successful (and necessary) in NYC and DC??? I think our topography really limits growth in the city and the rail across the lake would be very welcomed by many individuals, including the wealthier. Certainly would work for me, especially if 90 was tolled.

I don't know... maybe local employers could be part of the solution (Amazon???). Making the rail work is a matter of convenience and efficiency. I love taking the monorail from Seattle Center... maybe light rail could be designed to encourage tourism too???

On the other hand, I've personally been a victim of crime because of public transportation. The thieves that broke into my NE Seattle house had used the bus system to get to and from the scenes of crime to their homes and pawn shops in S. Seattle.

[branh0913]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

But isn't mass transit really successful (and necessary) in NYC and DC??? I think our topography really limits growth in the city and the rail across the lake would be very welcomed by many individuals, including the wealthier. Certainly would work for me, especially if 90 was tolled.

I don't know... maybe local employers could be part of the solution (Amazon???). Making the rail work is a matter of convenience and efficiency. I love taking the monorail from Seattle Center... maybe light rail could be designed to encourage tourism too???

On the other hand, I've personally been a victim of crime because of public transportation. The thieves that broke into my NE Seattle house had used the bus system to get to and from the scenes of crime to their homes and pawn shops in S. Seattle.

Who the hell catches a bus after commiting a crime? sorry, that's just ridiculous. Those have to be the dumbest criminals in the world. But home break ins is a dumb crime to begin with, considering the danger level there.