How much money does a family need to live in Seattle? (Highland: apartment, rent)

[boogex]

I'm entertaining a job offer in Seattle, but I'm scared of the high housing costs. In your opinion, how much income would a family of four need to live in a safe neighborhood with good schools? Suburbs or Seattle proper.


Thank you!

[JBVirtuoso]

There are waaaaaay too many variables for us to provide a realistic answer to this question. If you're cool with a two-bedroom apartment, can make do with one car, don't have much debt, don't travel much, and don't like to buy fancy gadgets, you could probably do very well on a household income of $70K, even in the most expensive areas with the best schools. If you're looking for 3,000 sq. ft. with acreage, a travel budget, a few cars, and insist on the best schools in the area, I think it would be hard to make that work with less than $200K per year.

What kind of situation do you have in Chicago? I'd say that the Seattle area (for housing prices) represents a cross-section of Chicago's north side neighborhoods (Lincoln Square, Andersonville, West Ridge, Irving Park), western suburbs (Oak Park, Berwyn, Hinsdale, Naperville) and north suburbs (Wilmette, Highland Park, Evanston). You won't find anything as cheap as Lake, McHenry, or Kendall Counties. On the other hand, if you're looking at region-wide averages and freaking out, that's because Chicago's average is brought down by blighted areas on the south side, near west side, and south suburbs. Seattle has no such blight, nor does its urban sprawl extend as far from downtown, and the regional housing price indices reflect that.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by JBVirtuoso

There are waaaaaay too many variables for us to provide a realistic answer to this question. If you're cool with a two-bedroom apartment, can make do with one car, don't have much debt, don't travel much, and don't like to buy fancy gadgets, you could probably do very well on a household income of $70K, even in the most expensive areas with the best schools. If you're looking for 3,000 sq. ft. with acreage, a travel budget, a few cars, and insist on the best schools in the area, I think it would be hard to make that work with less than $200K per year.

What kind of situation do you have in Chicago? I'd say that the Seattle area (for housing prices) represents a cross-section of Chicago's north side neighborhoods (Lincoln Square, Andersonville, West Ridge, Irving Park), western suburbs (Oak Park, Berwyn, Hinsdale, Naperville) and north suburbs (Wilmette, Highland Park, Evanston). You won't find anything as cheap as Lake, McHenry, or Kendall Counties. On the other hand, if you're looking at region-wide averages and freaking out, that's because Chicago's average is brought down by blighted areas on the south side, near west side, and south suburbs. Seattle has no such blight, nor does its urban sprawl extend as far from downtown, and the regional housing price indices reflect that.

Yep, I agree with all of this except if you want the big house, good schools, travel, cars and fancy gadgets AND you want to save for the future (kids and retirement) it wouldn't be easy even on $200k.

[Prple]

Originally Posted by JBVirtuoso

There are waaaaaay too many variables for us to provide a realistic answer to this question. If you're cool with a two-bedroom apartment, can make do with one car, don't have much debt, don't travel much, and don't like to buy fancy gadgets, you could probably do very well on a household income of $70K, even in the most expensive areas with the best schools. If you're looking for 3,000 sq. ft. with acreage, a travel budget, a few cars, and insist on the best schools in the area, I think it would be hard to make that work with less than $200K per year.

I agree with this.

[shaylahc]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Yep, I agree with all of this except if you want the big house, good schools, travel, cars and fancy gadgets AND you want to save for the future (kids and retirement) it wouldn't be easy even on $200k.

I agree as well. My husband makes decent money working for MS, and we're still struggling to save for the future. I feel like we'd never be able to buy a house. Does anyone really want to be enslaved to a $500K+ mortgage (a fixer upper in the burbs) for the next 30 years?

It's tough. To me it seems stupid to have to scrimp and save just to keep your head above water when you're making 6 figures plus.

[JBVirtuoso]

Originally Posted by shaylahc

I agree as well. My husband makes decent money working for MS, and we're still struggling to save for the future. I feel like we'd never be able to buy a house. Does anyone really want to be enslaved to a $500K+ mortgage (a fixer upper in the burbs) for the next 30 years?

It's tough. To me it seems stupid to have to scrimp and save just to keep your head above water when you're making 6 figures plus.

It's all relative. Whether you're scrimping or living like royalty largely depends on what you want out of life. This is why it's so hard to tell someone else how much money is enough.

I was recently helping a friend evaluate job offers. She asked me whether the salary was enough to live comfortably in Seattle, and all I could do is laugh because it was twice my own salary. For her, living on my salary would probably feel like scrimping, but I think I live quite comfortably. Wealth is less about absolute numbers than about how you measure your own success against your goals and desires.

[shaylahc]

Originally Posted by JBVirtuoso

It's all relative. Whether you're scrimping or living like royalty largely depends on what you want out of life. This is why it's so hard to tell someone else how much money is enough.

I was recently helping a friend evaluate job offers. She asked me whether the salary was enough to live comfortably in Seattle, and all I could do is laugh because it was twice my own salary. For her, living on my salary would probably feel like scrimping, but I think I live quite comfortably. Wealth is less about absolute numbers than about how you measure your own success against your goals and desires.

It depends on a lot of factors. I have 4 children, so living in a reasonably priced 2 bedroom apartment is not an option.

Food is more expensive here. Kids gotta eat

It's true that it CAN be relative to what you consider "enough"....but there are certain basics (like food, and shelter to accommodate your size family) that aren't easy to scrimp on.

[RVD90277]

is it really that difficult to live here with a $200k salary? i only ask because Amazon's base salary is capped at $160k so the rest of your comp comes from stock. it's not uncommon as you move higher and higher up to get stock worth $100k/year or even $1m/year, etc. most people live off of their $160k/year salary to pay their monthly bills and take their stock that vests and save that (for a house, retirement, etc.). i.e., i basically live off of $160k/year and save everything else.

at $200k salary,

you'd get roughly $12k/mo after taxes.
you rent a nice home for $4k/month. (this usually gets you a house that worth around $1m so 4+ bedrooms, 3+ baths, 3000+ sq ft, etc.).
spend $3k/month on utilities, car payments, eating out, etc.
you're still left with $5k/mo to save so you'd have $60k in savings/year.

after 4 years, you'll have $240k. put $200k down on a $1m house so loan $800k.
monthly mortgage + property tax would be around $5k/month

you'd still be able to save $4k/month after you spend $3k/month on bills and stuff.

or am i missing something big?

this assumes that your kids go to public school, you have nice cars (BMWs), live in a nice suburb, etc.

[cloveleaf]

Originally Posted by RVD90277

is it really that difficult to live here with a $200k salary? i only ask because Amazon's base salary is capped at $160k so the rest of your comp comes from stock. it's not uncommon as you move higher and higher up to get stock worth $100k/year or even $1m/year, etc. most people live off of their $160k/year salary to pay their monthly bills and take their stock that vests and save that (for a house, retirement, etc.). i.e., i basically live off of $160k/year and save everything else.

at $200k salary,

you'd get roughly $12k/mo after taxes.
you rent a nice home for $4k/month. (this usually gets you a house that worth around $1m so 4+ bedrooms, 3+ baths, 3000+ sq ft, etc.).
spend $3k/month on utilities, car payments, eating out, etc.
you're still left with $5k/mo to save so you'd have $60k in savings/year.

after 4 years, you'll have $240k. put $200k down on a $1m house so loan $800k.
monthly mortgage + property tax would be around $5k/month

you'd still be able to save $4k/month after you spend $3k/month on bills and stuff.

or am i missing something big?

this assumes that your kids go to public school, you have nice cars (BMWs), live in a nice suburb, etc.

A lot of dual income families. 160K * 2 = 320K. And where are retirement saving and college saving in your calculation? 3k can't really cover home maintenance and repair, appliance/furniture replacement on a $1m house, and car (either save up front or car payments), travel, insurance, cellphone/cable/internet/, utilities, groceries, clothing, dinning out, healthcare, etc. Have you ever tracked your family expenses?

[noah]

Good problems to have. Then there is the 80% of us that manage on less than $100k.

Originally Posted by cloveleaf

A lot of dual income families. 160K * 2 = 320K. And where are retirement saving and college saving in your calculation? 3k can't really cover home maintenance and repair, appliance/furniture replacement on a $1m house, and car (either save up front or car payments), travel, insurance, cellphone/cable/internet/, utilities, groceries, clothing, dinning out, healthcare, etc. Have you ever tracked your family expenses?