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Old 03-04-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,720,100 times
Reputation: 7193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I wonder if my state is doing anything similar. Better check.
Way to many states are flat broke so all they can do is talk the good talk while they do nothing.


At the end of the day each and every one of us will have to get by with our own resources.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Mandarin)
2,560 posts, read 6,520,575 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Useless?

You need to about 12,000 people for an aircraft carrier. Does Wyoming even have that many people?

Uselessly....


Mircea
Yes, useless. The flight deck isn't long enough for general aviation and even military aircraft require a decent headwind to get enough and air across the wings for safe launch and recovery.

An underway carrier has a crew of around 5,000 sailors and air crewman.

<--former crew member on an aircraft carrier.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:55 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,642,545 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Well, okay, here is a question for you: would you be willing to donate your private land to the federal government? That's basically what happened here in Utah for many, many folks, way back when. Except the land was donated... forcefully.

I'm not singling you out here, but it's interesting how hypocritical folks get on this issue. You mention that it would be like going back to the feudal times if the land were privately owned. Yet... I'm assuming you yourself own land. And I'm sure you would require me to ask you if I could run my ATV (hypothetically--I don't actually have one) over your garden, and/or hunt your land, and/or gather on it, and/or ranch it, hike it, camp on it. Right? So does that make you one of those feudal Lords of yesteryear?

It just goes to show how much the mindset has changed over the years. At one time, when a "homestead" area was opened up, people rushed to get their own little chunk of ground to live on. It was considered a good thing. Now, the idea of opening land up to citizens is frowned upon... by people who, presumably, own their little chunk of heaven already. And before you say, "well, I paid for my land," I wasn't really assuming that folks would get free land. As I said, the state was (hypothetically) planning on selling the opened land to fund education. So it would be sold. Something like Alaska State has been doing for years (and still does). And as regulation nuts as we all are these days, I'm sure they could regulate the daylights out of those sales just to make sure a Russian mafia man, or Chinese businessman, or Iranian militant doesn't get the land.

As I said, this whole idea could be very good for sufficiency-oriented people. But there is no point in arguing about it anyway, because there is no way it's ever going to happen. And, I'm biased: in my opinion, the federal government shouldn't own ANY land, except for maybe a bit for military purposes. All public land should be state owned. Besides, I never said that I wanted national parks and forests opened to private ownership. But there is a HELL of a lot of BLM land in this state that could certainly be bought and nurtured by private individuals who are interested in caring for the land, tending it, and making it into something. And if you're worried about more endless horizons of "ranchette" McMansions, zone it AG160 (you must own 160 acres of land to build a home--that's the way most of those isolated areas are now for private land). This land is now completely neglected and the only people who use it are those who go out and trash it and disturb the soil--it's largely desert soil and as soon as an ATV tire tracks over the skimpy foliage, we have instant dust storm during the frequent wind storms around here. Every year for the past ten years or so, we get these huge dust storms every time the south wind blows. Never used to have that. Why? Well, what has changed out there the last few years? Farming has diminished. Mining has diminished. There used to be next to no one out there. I could go out there and traipse around the desert for days and never see another soul. Now if I went out there to hike as I used to, I'd likely get ran over by a "quad." The only thing that has changed is the destructive power of the ATVs. They certainly wouldn't be tearing their front lawns up with the ATV like they tear up the countryside. You see, when you don't own the land, you really don't give a damn what you do to it.
Come to Texas - 96% private owned and a lot of it is in disrepair, overrun by deer, cedar etc. What's the point of all the beauty when I can't roam it and it's all fenced off?

I say the more public land the better.

BLM grazing programs are essentially tax-subsidized programs that are run at a loss. The benefactors of these tax-subsidized programs are the ranchers.

The essential mistake being made out west where there is a lot of BLM land is that cows should not be raised in these areas. Usually it takes 20-40 acres per head and in a lot of cases a herd of cows can cause tremendous damage to an ecosystem. While ranchers and private land owners play a role in preserving the ecosystem on their large land units, they are entities that operate for profit. The majority of predators were lost this way, the wolf, the mexican gray wolf (in NM) etc.

As soon as a predator is reintroduced into an ecosystem and it starts making a come back - who do you hear first? The recipients of the govt BLM grazing handouts - check this link to see how far they go:

Livestock Growers, Counties Withdraw Lawsuit to Eradicate Gray Wolves From New Mexico

Anyways, my point is the following: land in this country is a commodity, it is there to do one thing only - make profit. When you treat land like that then what you get is what you have today. It will only get worse.

I share your ATV plight - I hate them with passion and I think they should be banned as a mode of transport. But guess what? Even the large 1000+ ranches nowadays use horses less and less, guess what they drive out to check fences and cattle? (trucks, ATVs...)

OD
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
3,515 posts, read 7,801,877 times
Reputation: 4298
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I'm still struggling with Wyoming's need of (and especially placement of!) an aircraft carrier.
How else do you expect us to defend Yellowstone Lake from invaders?!
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,176 posts, read 10,708,407 times
Reputation: 9647
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
How else do you expect us to defend Yellowstone Lake from invaders?!
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:01 PM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,494,053 times
Reputation: 3621
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBoyd View Post
An aircraft carrier is generally useless as an airport, unless it can get into a really strong head wind.
Maybe they will build a lazy susan for it and put up a steadying sail so it can turn 360 degrees and have the ability to always face into the wind. Just kidding of course.
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