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I've used leg holds for over 20 years now and I can say you are full of crap. I wish I could express my feelings more but the Mods will not let me. Even though you seem to be able to put me in a group with Micheal Vick I am not allowed to point out how stupid you are without getting an infraction. Is that fairness?
I can't wait to strip off another hide and rip out some guts so I can cook and eat that dead animal!
I still can't figure out why a snare question was answered with legholds and "Mr. Vick" anyway. Looking for the "Stinky Turd Of The Year" award here on City Data?
Please learn about trapping before posting such BS again.
I would say you need to learn to be respectful to people. If you cannot be civilized, you need to holler in the woods. This should be a place of civilized discourse. If you disagree, use arguments to make a point.
In any case, there was a recent study (a long term study) of coyote populations and the effects of human intervention in trying to reduce their numbers. Aside from the main conclusion that the more you kill coyotes, the more they will multiply - one of the side conclusions was that the vast number of animals were trapped inhumanely, were found bled to death after they have chewed their legs off etc.
Now, I don't doubt that if used properly the trap works as advertised - however, a car usually drives straight until some jackass picks up the cell phone and runs into the other lane and kills an innocent family coming from the opposite direction.
Happy has a point - it is inhumane to trap animals. If you must kill one, do it quick, eat it all or give the meat to someone in need. Use the fur and the bones if you can. Waste nothing.
The type of trapping I am interested in learning more about are what most seem to refer to as "cordage" traps. I would assume this is a type of trap you set up and when triggered, by say a deer or person the trap would snap into action and "tie up" for lack of a better term, the prey that triggered it?
quote=cowdog;26393779]You really want to use wire but I also use ropes up to hogs (never caught a deer yet). You basically want to learn about snare triggers. Once you learn a few triggers there are really endless ways to make snares with ropes. Good luck killing and eating those furry beasts!
The above seems to say it all about the trapper/poacher.
The above seems to say it all about the trapper/poacher.
Have to disagree, an ethical trapper operating in a moral manner within the laws of the state is not a poacher.
A poacher is an individual who takes game outside of all legal and ethical boundries. A poacher is basically a thief that steals resources, (animals in this case) from the people that actually put forth the time and effort to do things in a legal and ethical way within all accepted norms of the pursuit and taking of wild animals for food or fur.
I don't have a problem with those that for personal reasons do not wish to pursue the art of trapping, but at the same time, I should be able to practice the craft.
Trapping is no more inhumane than stuffing large numbers of animals like cattle, pigs, chickens or turkeys into tiny confined spaces, force feeding them, genetically altering them, and then slaughtering them in vast quantities to feed the masses that refuse to take responsibility, or lack the ability to provide their own food.
Trapping is an ancient form of obtaining the proteins, fats and furs necessary to provide for sustinance. It may not be as necessary now for daily life, but in an emergency, it is a tool that can again provide for those that understand it.
Just like all wildlife, current biological data and resources are used to set limits on takes to both keep the target population healthy, thin the numbers of animals that can damage resouces, (like coyotes killing livestock), and the fees paid by outdoorsmen including trappers pay for the DNR and Fish Wildlife and Parks departments that enhance habitat, study the animals and increase the populations through purchase of wildlands and easements to provide suitable living space for the animals.
As humans have impacted the land, the old thrive and starve or die of disease scenario that animals have always lived under has changed.
Unless there is room for both humans and wildlife provided for by contientious management, the wildlife will loose and either go extinct or live in drastically reduced numbers and ranges.
Buffalo, Elk, Moose, Pronghorn Antlope, Mule Deer and Whitetail deer were all nearly extinct at the turn of the 20th century, but work by outdoorsmen like Teddy Roosevelt and the hunters and anglers that voted a tax on themselves through the Pittman Robinson act in the 30s that have set up wildlife refuges and paid for game wardens and direct studies of the animals, all those species have been brought back, and millions of hunters have the ability to pursue them now because of the foresight of our forebearers who recognized the importance of the animals to our well being and love of the outdoors.
That includes furbearers like fox and beaver as well.
Hunters, Anglers and Trappers donate huge amounts of time, money and effort to protect the species they pursue every year. They lobby for wildlife protection, spend time cleaning up waterways and riparian areas, work to clear dangerous overgrowth of fuels in forested areas that would cause wildfires and kill animals and destroy habitat.
Humans are here to stay, so they have to take the responsibility to provide that suitable habitate is preserved for the animals to live and thrive in.
Hunters, Anglers and Trapper Associations are groups of people who take the health of wildlife very seriously because of their love and respect of the animals and so that we may have that resouce for food and enjoyment.
If you don't want to hunt or fish or trap, no problem.
There are millions of dedicated individuals working to make sure that the animals will be there if you ever need them.
But if our right to pursue those animals is removed through government fiat, the funds that currently pay for management of the resource will dry up, the animals will lose their value to us, and the populations will suffer and perhaps dissapear.
Those who love to look at wildlife have no idea of the amount of work necessary to maintain those herds, and outside of gate fees at a park, contribute very little to the health of those herds. That is why Hunters, Anglers and Trappers are vital to the continued health and well being of all of our wildlife.
Happy has a point - it is inhumane to trap animals. If you must kill one, do it quick, eat it all or give the meat to someone in need. Use the fur and the bones if you can. Waste nothing.
OD
Trapping involves the use of a trap, a foothold trap should cause no damage to the trapped animal, that's the purpose since damage would mean the hide would not be perfect, most traps have offset jaws, and there are even traps available with rubber inserts on the jaws to reduce any possible damage, imperfect hides reduce the value (which is the most common reason to trap). They're no more inhumane than a cage trap. A body trap will kill the trapped animal in most cases as fast as a bullet, they're designed to snap shut on the animal in the trap and kill it very quickly through crush damage, as will a deadfall.
What you seem to be discussing as inhumane is snaring, which is entirely different and heavily regulated. However you should really educate yourself before making sweeping statements about a pursuit that you apparently have only cursory or no knowledge of.
However on a SS&P perspective, while snaring may well be less humane than trapping or shooting, you perfectly at liberty to be happily starving while righteously indignant about how food is being consumed by others that is collected through "inhumane" means.
And as MTSilvertip correctly states, trapping is not poaching, it's only poaching if there are regulations prohibiting trapping entirely, if the means used to trap or snare are prohibited by those regulations, and whether there is any license required for trapping and/or snaring and the person trapping or snaring does not possess such a license.
Two of the trapperr/poacher element discuss trapping deer. The others who claim to be trappers make no objection even though using traps for deer is poaching. One discusses trapping pigs. I don't know if this is legal anywhere but neither do I know if it's a reference to domestic pigs. But why wouldn't a poacher steal his neighbors' pigs? As one poster states, a poacher is a thief. Another poacher states that trapping is only poaching when trapping is prohibited entirely. Apparently he believes that trapping deer is just fine.
Meanwhile, anyone who buys a box of .38 special fo personal defence is forced to pay a tax to support others' hobby activities. There's no difference between that and being forced to pay the support of welfare recipients and government employees.
The above seems to say it all about the trapper/poacher.
Deer stops can be used on snares to prevent deer from getting caught in them. I've got little experience with snares myself though since they're illegal in my state.
FWIW, the Native Americans used a lot of methods of getting meat that some may find repulsive: pit traps, running them off cliffs or ledges, etc. There's an area near me called "Deer Leap," named for deer being chased off and leaping to their deaths centuries ago. When you're in danger of starving, ethics sometimes go out the window. I'll avoid anything inhumane whenever possible. If I'm in serious danger of starvation, things might change.
Two of the trapperr/poacher element discuss trapping deer. The others who claim to be trappers make no objection even though using traps for deer is poaching. One discusses trapping pigs. I don't know if this is legal anywhere but neither do I know if it's a reference to domestic pigs. But why wouldn't a poacher steal his neighbors' pigs? As one poster states, a poacher is a thief. Another poacher states that trapping is only poaching when trapping is prohibited entirely. Apparently he believes that trapping deer is just fine.
Meanwhile, anyone who buys a box of .38 special fo personal defence is forced to pay a tax to support others' hobby activities. There's no difference between that and being forced to pay the support of welfare recipients and government employees.
In the context of a discussion on survival in a situation where the normal rules of society don't apply, it's not necessarily poaching if a person does trap a deer. If a person is lost in some wilderness area and is starving, generally the laws allow them to get food by any means necessary. If society collapses, there's no such thing as poaching anymore. Under normal circumstances, anyone snaring deer is a poacher. Snares set for furbearers or small game can be rigged to not catch deer (using deer stops or some other methods).
The pigs reference is to feral pigs, which is a serious environmental disaster in some parts of this country.
The taxes on ammo go to fund wildlife habitat, etc. More people who benefit from it don't hunt or trap than do. All the hikers, birdwatchers, boaters, etc., have the wildlife to view or clean waters or simply places to go that aren't private land because of those taxes. If you wish to avoid it, load your own ammo. I trust my handloads more than commercial ammo anyways.
Wouldn't it be great if everyone who answered this thread could just answer the OP's question? I grew up in rural Kentucky and like a previous poster mentioned I use to read Fur Fish & Game and learned a lot about trapping from that magazine. There were a lot books for sale in that magazine that were about trapping as well as adds for lures and traps etc.... I own a couple of live traps that I used to catch some possums and raccoons that were getting themselves into some mischief in my mom's backyard. I relocated them to some nice wooded areas outside of the city where no one will run over them w/ cars. I actually learned a good bit about trapping by watching the show Billy the Exterminator. His method of using marshmallows to catch raccoons in live traps worked really well for me. Here are a couple of links below that may help you.
Two of the trapperr/poacher element discuss trapping deer. The others who claim to be trappers make no objection even though using traps for deer is poaching. One discusses trapping pigs. I don't know if this is legal anywhere but neither do I know if it's a reference to domestic pigs. But why wouldn't a poacher steal his neighbors' pigs? As one poster states, a poacher is a thief. Another poacher states that trapping is only poaching when trapping is prohibited entirely. Apparently he believes that trapping deer is just fine.
Meanwhile, anyone who buys a box of .38 special fo personal defence is forced to pay a tax to support others' hobby activities. There's no difference between that and being forced to pay the support of welfare recipients and government employees.
I realize you are only trying to promote an emotional argument while sidestepping the basic premise of the thread, but you really only belittle your own argument using prejoritive terms to describe others on this board.
The Fish and Game department here trap deer all the time using corrals or cages. To trap in it's most basic usage means to hold something, to limit it's mobility for your own purposes.
The DNRs of states like Texas and Louisianna and several others trap feral pigs using corrals with a one way gate.
Just because you capture, or Trap an animal does not mean you are limited in it's use.
Tribes of humans in the Pleictocene "trapped" wild oxen and horses, goats, sheep and pigs and started animal husbandry to create a sustainable food source.
Likewise, the progenitors of doemstic Turkeys, Ducks, geese, chickens and rabbits were Trapped and domesticated.
Today's tools are far wider than simply leghold traps. Net guns, culvert traps, enclosures all are used widely by wildlife agencies, and could be used by regular people to keep themselves alive.
There are accounts of tribes of people finding a deer yard or moose yard where the animals were wintering, building barriers around the yard, and keeping the animals alive until they needed them.
Fish weirs or wheels as well as nets are commonplace, and are a form of trapping.
I understand you feel that reducing an animal to usable proteins, fats and leather or fur utilizing trickery to catch the animal is somehow "inhumane" or "torture", but the facts are far different.
I am not going to force you to try and catch your own food, use your gold to buy styrofoam as long as you like, makes no difference to me.
But when someone asks about a viable way to catch food for themselves, I will answer them as truthfully and honestly as I can.
I do not make moral judgements on the way they want to live and provide for themselves, and you might consider extending that courtisy to others as well.
Name calling and emotion have very little to do with survival and the way you may have to provide for yourself in a crisis.
Not all of us have amassed fortunes preying on the consumer, so we rely on other skills and prowess to provide for ourselves.
Personally, I don't care how much money you have, or how you got it. Find comfort in your yellow metal and be happy.
I am not poor, but I don't count on the value of gold or silver in a crisis. I will continue to be part of nature and utilize it's bounty to provide for my family in any situation.
And to answer your final point, the taxes paid on ammunition don't support anyone's "hobby", they go to ensure that our wildlife resources are available for everyone to use and enjoy.
If you don't want to pay the tax, go cut a club for self defense and to guard your gold.
In my opinion,
the true survivalist has a garden,
has a water resource,
has skills to meet the needs of the day,
has friends and or loved ones of the same mind set cooperating in the same atmosphere.,
has his ear to the ground and a keen awareness of the world around him ,not simply taking from the world but working in symphony with it ..
A raider is a thief, stealing and planting nothing, doing nothing to earn his living . He is the lowest level of survival having abandoned moral and dicipline reason .
Prudent survival ,adds indiginious eatable plants that promote life among the wild and does not harvest the young but the aged, nonreproductive .
Part of the reason African countries are starving, is the lack of dicipline, taking every thing, and leaving nothing to grow to maturity and reproduce . They believe they have a right to it so there for if some one else is going to take it any way it may as well be them . This is the bi law of most americans as well .
I realize this sound like a rant , but this is why we have fishing, hunting, and trapping, laws and conciquences for breaking said laws . Other wise ther would be nothing to hunt fish or trap at all . Ever watch the movie "Dances with wolves" ?
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the trap would snap into action and "tie up" for lack of a better term, the prey that triggered it?
