Something you can't prepare for.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by LordyLordy

I am sorry but what the hell are you talking about?

OK - let me ask you a more direct question: do you think that citizens of a country like Sweden, Denmark, Germany or France are less free than you?

Is my taxation smaller a percentage than theirs? There is your answer. You see, things like being able to smoke crack, abort fetuses, view smut on billboards, marry a man (why ANYONE--male or female--would want to marry a man is beyond me), embrace "diversity," have an orgy in the town square (), blah, blah, blah, mean very little to me one way or the other. To each his/her own. But the percentage of my limited time on this planet, within this existence, dedicated to my master's plantation DOES mean something to me. So, from that perspective, the answer is yes. At least for the time being--that's rapidly changing though. Ask me in five years and you'll probably get a different response from me.

Let's just say I'm a Swedish citizen. And let's say that I suddenly decided that it's not my responsibility to secure everyone else's wellbeing and that it's not everyone else's responsibility to secure mine. I then proceed to refuse to submit the 50 plus percent of my labors to the ruling class' coffers. Where do you suppose that I would end up, ultimately? And do you suppose that it would be any different a place as it would were I to make such a choice as a surf in 15th century France, or as a citizen of the Holy Roman Empire, or as a subject of the Inca Empire, or as a drone in Castro's Cuba, or as an individual within a hunter gatherer group at the dawn of civilization?

I am not your responsibility; you are not mine. I am not your vassal; you are not mine. Simple concepts that have been understood by very few through the ages. And embraced by even fewer.




PLEASE NOTE: nowhere within my post did you see me make a disparaging remark concerning cooperation. But there is a huge, monumental rift between cooperation and coercion--something else very few people understand. One is light, the other darkness.

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Is my taxation smaller a percentage than theirs? There is your answer. You see, things like being able to smoke crack, abort fetuses, view smut on billboards, marry a man (why ANYONE--male or female--would want to marry a man is beyond me), embrace "diversity," have an orgy in the town square (), blah, blah, blah, mean very little to me one way or the other. To each his/her own. But the percentage of my limited time on this planet, within this existence, dedicated to my master's plantation DOES mean something to me. So, from that perspective, the answer is yes. At least for the time being--that's rapidly changing though. Ask me in five years and you'll probably get a different response from me.

Let's just say I'm a Swedish citizen. And let's say that I suddenly decided that it's not my responsibility to secure everyone else's wellbeing and that it's not everyone else's responsibility to secure mine. I then proceed to refuse to submit the 50 plus percent of my labors to the ruling class' coffers. Where do you suppose that I would end up, ultimately? And do you suppose that it would be any different a place as it would were I to make such a choice as a surf in 15th century France, or as a citizen of the Holy Roman Empire, or as a subject of the Inca Empire, or as a drone in Castro's Cuba, or as an individual within a hunter gatherer group at the dawn of civilization?

I am not your responsibility; you are not mine. I am not your vassal; you are not mine. Simple concepts that have been understood by very few through the ages. And embraced by even fewer.




PLEASE NOTE: nowhere within my post did you see me make a disparaging remark concerning cooperation. But there is a huge, monumental rift between cooperation and coercion--something else very few people understand. One is light, the other darkness.

Once again, you've made an outstanding post. There's a scale of living with slavery at one end and freedom at the other. The people who talk about a "third" way really just mean some mush in between or they think that drugs and perverted sex are more important components of freedom than the right to acquire, possess, and dispose of every kind of property. That includes guns as well as unpopular literature.

I don't really want the middle mush either. In the Inca civilization the Inca ruler, called simply the Inca, owned every bit of property and controlled all commerce. Living under the Aztecs would have been better but hardly desirable although people could at least have property. If there's no ownership there's no freedom. In 1938 a children's Christmas serial called The Cinnamon Bear premiered running from Thanksgiving to Christmas. It played on the radio for years. In one of the early episodes the good guys encounter a group called the Incaboos. It's incredibly good satire and now, of course, you can find it in your living room. Do check this one out; it's great fun for the whole family and teaches real moral values.

I'd be in prison in a country like Denmark. It might be for owning illegal weapons; it might be for "hate speech". If I had children it might be for threatening or punching a homosexual who wished to "bond" with my 5 yo son. In the liberal prize of Canada just questioning whether the approved version of the "holocaust" has earned prison sentences. If I were in Canada and wrote "holohoax " there is no question that I'd be in big trouble...but not as much as if I had an unregistered handgun. Canadian freedom fighters regularly go to prison for supplying this basic need and right.

I am glad that I found a woman who thought marrying a man is the natural and proper way. Irene doesn't represent all women. You're in Utah. Find a girl with hair the color of winter wheat and eyes as blue as the northern sky, the kind who'll happily walk hand in hand with you to the Dakota plains or wherever else your dream may lie. There are some barren women in Utah so you don't need one with three kids. It's too bad that it's not the old days when an academic got pick of the litter and his wife got the super catch.

You and I disagree on numerous practical matters. But I have no disagreement with you on ethics and morals. You'd love living here and you'd be a very welcome addition to our community. I might live in Switzerland if I were rich but for the time being it needs to be here; and I found a good spot.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

The people who talk about a "third" way really just mean some mush in between or they think that drugs and perverted sex are more important components of freedom than the right to acquire, possess, and dispose of every kind of property.

A crucial right, indeed. The difference between "collective property" and "personal property" is, in nearly every case, very evident. For example, compare a family dwelling in "the projects" somewhere in which the inhabitant does not own the dwelling and it has been provided him by whatever means (or, to a lesser extent, he is a renter), to that of anything from a small home up to a grand Victorian manse which is the property of the inhabitant. Nine times out of ten, the difference is 100% obvious. It's even evident on my block. I can easily pick out either and be correct every time.

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

If there's no ownership there's no freedom.

Exactly right.

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

In 1938 a children's Christmas serial called The Cinnamon Bear premiered running from Thanksgiving to Christmas. It played on the radio for years. In one of the early episodes the good guys encounter a group called the Incaboos. It's incredibly good satire and now, of course, you can find it in your living room. Do check this one out; it's great fun for the whole family and teaches real moral values.

I've been very interested in the social history of the era between about 1870 and 1930 for a long time (and of course, earlier times as well). I must admit, though, I'd never heard of The Cinnamon Bear. Of course, it came a bit later than the times I concentrate on, but I'm going to have to research it further (I read the blurb on Wikipedia and it looks very interesting).

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

Irene doesn't represent all women.

Eh, she wasn't so bad. Just didn't work out. She was certainly kinder and a trifle more civil than my pal, the "cat woman," in that thread!

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

There are some barren women in Utah so you don't need one with three kids.

There are a few lurking about in the shadows around here.

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

You and I disagree on numerous practical matters. But I have no disagreement with you on ethics and morals. You'd love living here and you'd be a very welcome addition to our community. I might live in Switzerland if I were rich but for the time being it needs to be here; and I found a good spot.

Yes, I think our biggest disagreements have arisen when I start going into my Little House on the Prairie ideals mode... But, I'm trying to refrain for the time being. Only for now though.

[LordyLordy]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Is my taxation smaller a percentage than theirs? There is your answer.

From Wikipedia:

"Part Two, implemented under Vladimir Putin (enacted in August 2000, effective January 1, 2001) promulgated a flat 13 percent personal income tax rate"

Also from Wikipedia:

"After the 1959 Cuban Revolution, citizens were not required to pay a personal income tax..."

Also from Wikipedia (article on North Korea's economy):

"Taxes were abolished in 1974 as "remnants of an antiquated society."".

By your definition, we must live in a VERY oppressive society, no?

[LordyLordy]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Yes, I think our biggest disagreements have arisen when I start going into my Little House on the Prairie ideals mode... But, I'm trying to refrain for the time being. Only for now though.

Boy, the way you two are high-fiveing (sp?) each other, one would think you might be dating!

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by LordyLordy

From Wikipedia:

"Part Two, implemented under Vladimir Putin (enacted in August 2000, effective January 1, 2001) promulgated a flat 13 percent personal income tax rate"

Also from Wikipedia:

"After the 1959 Cuban Revolution, citizens were not required to pay a personal income tax..."

Also from Wikipedia (article on North Korea's economy):

"Taxes were abolished in 1974 as "remnants of an antiquated society."".

By your definition, we must live in a VERY oppressive society, no?

It's simply what matters to me most here right now because that's the largest "erosion" at this point from my perspective. There are others, of course, but we all tend to concentrate on what affects us the most at any given point. If a militarized SWAT team from our growing police state smashed in my door tomorrow, I'm sure that trend would be my main concern at that point. If the collective's "lifestyle police" began giving me grief personally about what I eat, drink, or what my private life entails, then that would be where my focus would be. There are lots of eroding rights to be concerned about. Take your pick.

As for Russia: isn't it interesting that we are headed the direction that they have tried to move away from... because it didn't work. But we hardheaded Americans have to find out for ourselves.

Originally Posted by LordyLordy

Boy, the way you two are high-fiveing (sp?) each other, one would think you might be dating!

No, you need to drop that "e" by convention, even though it's not an official term in the progressive tense. But don't worry, if "irregardless" can make it into Websters, anything can.

Naw, I'm dating a woman who lived 110 years ago. I've cracked the code for time-travel. You'd be surprised at how non-straitlaced those Victorian Gibson Girls really were. And how jaw-dropping (that's used as a flat adverb, BTW) gorgeous they were. (I know... what the hell am I talking about? Only humor; calm down. I haven't lost it yet. But I'm getting there)

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Yes, I think our biggest disagreements have arisen when I start going into my Little House on the Prairie ideals mode... But, I'm trying to refrain for the time being. Only for now though.

That's really just a harmless eccentricity. It makes you seem to be a gifted if eccentric amateur in the tradition of the British upper classes. My disagreements with you are in the area of your eschewing certain phenomena that were necessary for the creation of civilization, to wit, specialization of occupation, trade, credit, and insurance. All of these date back thousands of years to the dawn of civilization. Baltic amber dating from 10,00 B.C. has been found in central Africa; Aristophanes wrote about insurance fraud in one of his comedies. This was casualty insurance. Other forms are much later arrivals.

Originally Posted by ChrisC

No, you need to drop that "e" by convention, even though it's not an official term in the progressive tense. But don't worry, if "irregardless" can make it into Websters, anything can.

Languages evolve; but that's a simple illiteracy, at least so far. But their (M-W's) acceptance exemplifies why I use the greatest Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the Second International of 1934. The one volume edition is so wide no binding machinery could handle the width so workmen had to sew them by hand.

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Naw, I'm dating a woman who lived 110 years ago. I've cracked the code for time-travel. You'd be surprised at how non-straitlaced those Victorian Gibson Girls really were. And how jaw-dropping (that's used as a flat adverb, BTW) gorgeous they were. (I know... what the hell am I talking about? Only humor; calm down. I haven't lost it yet. But I'm getting there)

Look at pictures of girls born up until 1950. Then notice how they go steeply downhill after that. Thankfully, we both live where many of them still look as they did in those better times.