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a real prepper would have done some situational awareness, realised that wasn't a safe place to be and got the hell out of there.
You would think so wouldnt you. But that is the whole problem. We knew something was going to happen. There was lots of tension But NO ONE could have guessed how bad it would become and how quickly everything went to hell. It went from courtesy and politeness to a hundred guys trying to cut your throat in 6 hours. It wasent just in that one spot either. It was everywhere.
Even thou guns were illegal, it was surprising just how many guns popped up within a day or so. And in general it wasent the bad guys who had the guns. They had clubs and knives. I watched the local police barracks (same thing as army) Which was a concrete fort of a building with 12.5's in the parapets, 100 or so men and mortar emplacements go down in less than an hour to guys with clubs and knives. By the time it was over, more than a million people died and the vast majority of them were armed.
Read up on this. Especially about the western soldiers who were there (because you can relate to them) The vast majority of them, even thou they made it out. Never survived the conflict and either ended up in mental institutions or killed themselves. This includes the Generals. Not just the ground soldiers.
UNAMR had almost 1000 African troops and 400 Belgian troops. Many of the Belgian troops were killed and wounded and ALL of the African troops were killed. Again, by a mob with clubs and knives.
If you are a believer of EMP or sudden mass loss of government control, This is what you can expect.
Many of the people who survived survived because they ran away and hid until it was over. Those who stayed and fought mostly died. A trick that I noticed of people trying to save their assets was a common one in Africa. They build a concrete walled basement with a dirt floor then build their house on top of it from wood. When the troubles start, when things start to go bad they bury a lot of their stuff in the basement.When things totally go south they burn the house down on top of the stuff and run for the hills.
People have very little interest in burnt down houses so when things are better they go back and dig up their gold.
[quote=Cryptic;44094732]Historically, rural areas are as equally likely to fall into chaos as cities. Just look at what happened in Appalachia, the Ozarks and rural Missouri during the civil war. Alot of people had weapons in these areas. Given the excuse of the War, they then started to use them on their neighbors with a disturbing regularity.
^^ This is pretty much what I expect where I live. Rural areas are very cliquish and many people have nothing else better to do then talk bad about their neighbors or even make up stories. A lot of debts to be settled.
Although cities will be more chaotic due to more folks needing food/shelter/water/supplies, etc. I still think more rural beats nearer big cities, as this is where all unprepared (in or near cities) will be. Some will then, of course, seek out prepped areas in more rural places but at least there won't be a million people knocking on you door -- just a few thousand, haha.
so your figure of 10's of millions does not hold water. by the time people start foraging for food out in the countryside, most people will be too weak or not even know where to start.
Another assumption that urban people will automatically need to forage for food in the country side. Many rural areas may run out of food first. I have driven for days though rural pine belt counties in the South where working farms were few in number and I bet nearly all of the food was shipped in.
Hunting? Sure, a certain number of the locals know how to hunt. My guess is that armed groups of knowledgeable locals will quickly spot light, bait etc. every deer in the area. Ditto for the fish, but I imagine they will use different techniques. Any disruption to the food distribution network, and most of the population in these counties are going to get hungry fast- and most have little money in which to buy food at inflated prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
Because ultimate power comes from the point of a gun, what's going to make the biggest difference in our lives is this: The priorities of tyrants once they've seized power.
1. The ruling elite
2. The apparatchiks
3. The enforcers
3. Everyone else.
A very good summary. Now, ask your self:
Q. Where to most elites, aparatchiks and enforcers live?
A- In cities
In more than a few deteriorating failed nations, rural areas slide into chaos first because the ruling elites spend an awful lot of effort ensuring that transportation and distribution net works supporting the cities (their home) are kept intact. Of course, if there is no food at all, this wont matter. But.... usually, there are crops available in some places at certain prices. Elites will often loot the national treasury to ensure that price is paid, then use force and talent to transport it to the cities.
The elites really don't care about city 'hood dwellers, or barrio boyz, but they don't want unrest with in shooting distance of their homes either (at least the conservative ones are up front about this, liberal ones will toss out propaganda that they do). As a result, the elites subsidize food prices for them as well. Rural areas that don't have exportable (and there are many that don't) crops are left to their own devices.
Even the spot lighting deer slayers learn that some city people have far more cash to spend for protein than locals out in the piney woods. Excess venison, "acquired beef cattle" and crops are brought into the city and sold there, not to desperate locals. I know what I am saying contrast to the views of many who post in these threads, but this is reality in nearly every case. Another example is Somalia. Famines started in the rural areas that the ruling elites did not need- not the cities which they needed.
I concur with bigpaul that food will be a concern along with the other factors I mentioned. In relating my perspective, I wasn't by any stretch of the imagination assuming that there would be a great many survivors, or the ones that survive would not necessarily be grouped together in one area. There might be instances, however, in which a group might increase the survival rate of the whole, but that will be a judgment call on the individuals. The rate at which any sort of cohesiveness will fall apart might depend on what sort of disaster befalls us as well.
I would say to survive an apocalypse one needs to be well versed in survival techniques since it will likely become the norm if such a disaster as has been discussed here befalls humanity.
Another assumption that urban people will automatically need to forage for food in the country side. Many rural areas may run out of food first. I have driven for days though rural pine belt counties in the South where working farms were few in number and I bet nearly all of the food was shipped in.
Hunting? Sure, a certain number of the locals know how to hunt. My guess is that armed groups of knowledgeable locals will quickly spot light, bait etc. every deer in the area. Ditto for the fish, but I imagine they will use different techniques. Any disruption to the food distribution network, and most of the population in these counties are going to get hungry fast- and most have little money in which to buy food at inflated prices.
A very good summary. Now, ask your self:
Q. Where to most elites, aparatchiks and enforcers live?
A- In cities
In more than a few deteriorating failed nations, rural areas slide into chaos first because the ruling elites spend an awful lot of effort ensuring that transportation and distribution net works supporting the cities (their home) are kept intact. Of course, if there is no food at all, this wont matter. But.... usually, there are crops available in some places at certain prices. Elites will often loot the national treasury to ensure that price is paid, then use force and talent to transport it to the cities.
The elites really don't care about city 'hood dwellers, or barrio boyz, but they don't want unrest with in shooting distance of their homes either (at least the conservative ones are up front about this, liberal ones will toss out propaganda that they do). As a result, the elites subsidize food prices for them as well. Rural areas that don't have exportable (and there are many that don't) crops are left to their own devices.
Even the spot lighting deer slayers learn that some city people have far more cash to spend for protein than locals out in the piney woods. Excess venison, "acquired beef cattle" and crops are brought into the city and sold there, not to desperate locals. I know what I am saying contrast to the views of many who post in these threads, but this is reality in nearly every case. Another example is Somalia. Famines started in the rural areas that the ruling elites did not need- not the cities which they needed.
But here's the thing; this is ALL hypothetical conjured what-ifs rather than any definitive real idea where/when/how this'll all go. I say rural is best as yes, you then must grow, hunt, fish for self-sufficiency but it is easier to learn even to grow a garden or just fish, if not hunt, then to fend off hoards of folks -- being so close from spilling out of famished food supply major cities/towns -- if you're unlucky to live too close to a major town.
And this is due to where far more folks will clambor for far less, as how can one be or who really is, self-sufficient in cities? Supermkts & stores are the ONLY way most now buy goods in urban areas. How's that going to work when economy (not if, but WHEN) or worse, simply collapses? Not trying to be devil's advocate here but it stands to reason; supply & demand will be the KEY words. Again, do the math. The sheer numbers don't lie... but opinions do.
Lastly, cash won't matter if economy goes unless you have goods for barter or food, etc. or gold/silver bullion, as cash will be worth monopoly money.
No urban dwellers are going to walk more than a mile at best in search for food.
If there ever was a shortage of food in the USA the president would just sign a "food security" bill into law by administrative action and you would soon find government agents and bureaucrats taking over all the farms, securing the food supply, and distributing it how they see fit. Farms would from then on be government run by the Department of Homeland Farming. You would only be allowed so much excess food or it would be confiscated.
Just my doomsday scenario prediction when it comes to food shortage .
How many times does this need to be said - first rule of prepping - don't tell anyone that you are a prepper.
As far as people surviving, I think most of the immediate deaths will be people who rely on daily medication to survive. Meds run out and some can't be stored successfully. People who rely on epipens and insulin comes to mind immediately.
I do believe that a 'them vs us' mentality will develop. Honestly, my priorities are:
1. My immediate family
There.....fixed it for you.......that is, if you are in any way thinking rationally about surviving a SHTF scenario.
. Farms would from then on be government run by the Department of Homeland Farming.
This is too funny!
Go back and read my thread titled "Caches". DO NOT store all your provisions in one place. DO NOT store them in your house. Nobody wants to address this. Not all caches are underground. There are many safe above-ground places to cache food and gear. One of the best places is a small 5 x 5 foot self-storage unit, as you will find in all areas of the country. This will hold food, guns, fuel, extra clothing, blankets, cooking supplies - you name it.
It may cost you $30 to 35 per month. Compare that to what you pay for your cell phone or cable TV per month, and adjust your priorities accordingly!
again, everybody seems to be assuming that 100% of the population will survive, this is incorrect.
about 99% of the population have no food supplies other than about 3-5 days worth of food they normally keep, in cities I have known people who don't even have this, they shop on a daily basis on the way home from work and buy just enough for their evening meal.
once the food deliveries stop to the shops the starvation will start, once they have run out of the meagre supplies they keep at home the starvation will start.
it dosent matter how you ration what is left it is finite and wont last for long.
anyone who dosent have enough skills to keep them alive, people who rely on "the system" for their "daily bread" wont last long.
although people can live for 30 days without food, within about 10 days without food they wont have the strength to go far.
once the water main shuts down, without clean fresh water survival will be down to 3 or 4 days tops.
one of the main problems is going to be what to do with all the dead bodies.
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