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Capabilities and willingness to adapt are key components of value to a group in a crisis situation. A group of clueless, entitled or high maintenance individuals would be far worse than going it on one's own.
I'm not saying a lone wolf can't manage to stay alive but I'd find it more fraught with peril as in there is no back up, no night watch, no help in event of illness or injury and unless well into the wilderness, no permanent encampment. I'm fine with my own company for a while but I still need community being a social creature. Definitely a smart dog would be helpful in a lone wolf situation. I also think lone wolf suits mostly younger males. There is biological precedence for this.
As I age I see my physical capabilities are diminishing even though I'm still a hard worker. Having lived in AK for all those years I spent summers burning the candle at both ends and setting fire to the middle getting all of the work, gardening, fishing, recreation and everything else done before winter set in. A reasonable though not as desperate facsimile I think of the kind of intense activity that will be required to live off the land which we partially did. By late September I was tired but as the years moved forward, I was more tired than preceding years. Without cooperation I see the end game coming sooner for the lone wolf if all things are equal. IOW the most skilled/cunning lone wolf versus the ideally skilled low ego group. Short term (less than a year) it could go either way, long term I can't help but think that the group wins out IMO.
Interesting discussion. Again I don't think TEOTWAWKI is the real threat. I see resources becoming scarcer, more expensive, employment spottier as time goes by. People are going to be forced to start depending on themselves more rather than handouts from charity or the government as traditional programs will become strapped for cash. That might take the form of tearing up the yard for a garden or people stealing metals from abandoned buildings or parked cars as is happening today. Look to Detroit as a model of a city in desperate times which is along the lines of what I see as a more reasonable scenario of doom. Areas will experience uneven levels of peace and prosperity depending upon resources, population, climate. Because this is the more likely scenario we are setting up our property in a rural area to water, feed, heat/cool us without much if any input from the outside along a permaculture model. We keep our skills honed and are adding skills as we go along plus building a fair sized "how to" library.
I don't see things going down (if they do go down) with a bang but rather a series of whimpers.
Capabilities and willingness to adapt are key components of value to a group in a crisis situation. A group of clueless, entitled or high maintenance individuals would be far worse than going it on one's own.
Exactly. And how much a liability to the remaining members, are those "clueless, entitled, high maintenance" individuals who become ex-members? I think you are right when you said that a "smart dog" would be more help! Immediately I thought of my 3 GSDs - none of whom are clueless, entitled, or high maintenance! They are truly *this* man's best friends!
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Originally Posted by AK-Cathy
Interesting discussion. Again I don't think TEOTWAWKI is the real threat. I see resources becoming scarcer, more expensive, employment spottier as time goes by. People are going to be forced to start depending on themselves more rather than handouts from charity or the government as traditional programs will become strapped for cash. ... Look to Detroit as a model of a city in desperate times which is along the lines of what I see as a more reasonable scenario of doom. Areas will experience uneven levels of peace and prosperity depending upon resources, population, climate.
I don't see things going down (if they do go down) with a bang but rather a series of whimpers.
Again, I think we agree here. The question has come up, exactly what sort of event could possibly trigger the (imaginary) crisis that some folks foresee? I don't really see an "event", I see a progression. I also don't really see an "if" or a "when"; I see what is already happening. Carried to its logical conclusion, it looks as if it will not be a pleasant state of affairs at the peak of the misery.
In the end, even "groups" may never come together, as there may not be any defining "event" to make them coalesce. We may all continue deeper into this, just as we are today - basically, separate households with friends, family and neighbors just as they are today, separate but nearby.
Evolutionary biology is influenced by mean intelligence levels.
Its entirely possible that people who are more creative and/or more able to devise superior planning are hindered, not helped, by groups. We most definitely have a mechanism in our brains that compels us to socialize, there is a clear hereditary selection bias for sociable creatures but on an individual basis, in extreme circumstances, it doesn't mean its an optimal strategy fora given situation.
It gets particularly tricky when we assume normal morals and ethics about the value of consensus, valuing individual well being, etc. A group may be a great thing for your well being if they are subservient and you are their more intelligent leader, but being a part of that same group may not be in your best interests if you are someone elses cannon fodder.
Yes, some of us are much more efficient working alone. Others only get in the way when we are trying to get things done. Personally, I don't really mind being around other people (although I do strongly prefer to be alone or in a small family/group), but when I am actually trying to get something productive done, get out of my way. Don't distract me. Don't offer help. I've always been a proponent of, "if you want something done right, do it yourself."
I have honestly never been performing a task in a "group setting" where I have been happy with the outcome--either others are underfoot, doing things shoddily or improperly, or doing nothing and just getting in my way. I don't want to have to tell you what you need to do; if you don't know, get out of the way until you figure it out. I will do the same, as well. Now, of course, if we are in a training or learning environment, that's different.
For me (and my "type"), the best group setting would be a solitary task that can be done within a group (without having others involved in the actual task). That would be something like a small shop/skilled craft required by the community, such as artisans/craftsmen used to do.
wife and I have always had jobs where we worked alone...she in farming and me in horticulture, we have both lived alone, and we both are aware of what the other one thinks and does, so as a "group" we are very much in tune with each other, she is also a herbalist,lived in the countryside all her life, the only other member of our group is our Cairn Terrier *****...now 12 years old, excellent "warning" dog-ears like radar-no one can approach while she is around! post SHTF I can use a lot more dogs to good effect-cant say the same about people.
I feel ya, I am the anti stupid type. I simply have no patience for people with no common sense. Add in a serious lack of subtlety and a tendency to laugh at people, it makes for a serious lack of friends.
So I found a good woman and a better dog.
New anthropological studies show a dog can increase the chances for a successful hunt by 53% and possibly the sole reason we out performed and out survived neanderthals.
Automatically loyal, eat less than your friends, can keep you warm in cold weather, and more reliable. Better than people for sentry duty or watch, can find water, run faster, jump higher, smell fire, track game and many can feed themselves and/or you sometimes.
Its like a better, fluffier version of Bear Grylls for side kick.
Too many stupid people around these days, "common sense" just isn't common any more, things that we did when I was a kid are either not done at all now or are looked on as "strange" or "Quaint"...like having a larder for instance. I've grown up with dogs all my life and I rate them much higher than people....and you can train them a lot easier than people too!!!!
A loner would be at a marked disadvantage under many circumstances.
Injury, illness, confrontation, competition for resources.
a loner would need LESS food(in quantity), make LESS noise, leave LESS tracks for others to find, make LESS mess and waste, a group of ONE would be harder to locate than say a group of 6 or 10. I wish people would stop trotting out these old chestnuts about loners, every one of us and every situation are not the same, any group is only as good as the members, in most cases we would be better off alone.
Last edited by bigpaul; 03-03-2015 at 08:42 AM..
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They are truly *this* man's best friends!
Groups vs Lone Wolfs
