Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not superior intelligence, simple application of basic economic principals.
I thought you went to school.
Basic survival, prepping, self sufficency, economics all follow the same principal, using what you have to your best advantage.
Sulking about what you don't have doesn't get you anywhere. You take what you have, money, intelligence, a good work ethic, a valuable skill, and learn to apply it to your best advantage to improve your situation.
No, actually doing for yourself isn't easy. You need to sacrifice time at the clubs, you have to sacrifice getting each new "in" toy, you live in a cheap rental instead of mortgaging an overpriced McMansion, you learn to cook from scratch instead of just ordering takeout from the new trendy place, you shop at thrift stores instead of buying new from some overpriced boutique, and all the time you're doing this you're paying off your student loans and investing.
You work overtime or a second job and invest or save.
It won't be today or tomorrow, but one day you wake up and your loans are paid off, you have the money and resources you need to live a comfortable life, and you don't owe anybody anything, (except the taxes to the benevolent government that allowed you to accumulate your wealth, you never escape that servitude).
To do that you need to educate yourself on economic theory and application, set goals, work and apply yourself, which most young folks these days have forgotten how to do.
Most of what I hear from millenials and other young folks these days is "the government owes me a free education, guarentee me a good job and take care of me".
Taking responsibility for your own life seems to have gone the way of the dodo and faded into history.
Sulking, bellyaching on an internet forum, whining that you don't have everything you want just because you want it, it is't really attractive.
Most of the older regular posters on this board have told you how they made their way in the world, (some who grew up commmunist and never left that mindset will tell you how wonderful the bread lines were and how great it was when the lottery prizes were toilet paper, but that isn't what the US is all about), and how to avoid the servitude you worry about. Everytime someone offers you a suggestion on how to better your situation, you get snarky. Your future is in your hands. Nobody is going to give you anything, you earn it. Being mad that people don't see how wonderful you are just gets you ulcers. You have to take an active roll in determining your own success because the default is failure.
There is a candidate for president that is an avowed socialist touting "free" college and "free" healthcare and "free" everything, don't worry, the rich will pay for it. That's balderdash. Someone always has to pay for what you get and there aren't enough super rich in the country to afford paying everything for everybody, so you may get what you want "free", but then you are a servant of the state and indentured through your taxes for the rest of your life. So choose your own destiny or let the state choose it for you.
You can either buck up, take responsibility for yourself, get your head right to get ahead, or you can stay where you are and be mad at the world.
It's your choice either way.
As you can see, ignorance abounds in the above thread. Not all flavours of socialism had bread lines, in some life was quite good (like pre-war Yugoslavia, for example). In some, life is still quite good - like the Scandinavian countries. In my humble opinion, their flavour of capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism is the ticket. Most Western and Eastern European countries DO have free education and healthcare (and they are much poorer than us), so it is possible .
As for opinions of others, I think taking opinions seriously from people who had done it themselves is the ticket. Ones that worked as soldiers for the government and made a comfortable living doing so (and still draw a pension) or ones that still do work for the government (state, federal etc.) should not really count, by definition - after all, how can you trust someone who draws or drew a government pay check and then criticizes the source of his/her livelihood
Of course, there are also folks who tell you how free you are but spend their lives working three jobs and barely making ends meet. Then finally they retire when they are 65 and have a few years to live out EVERYTHING they missed, including that college time when they worked two jobs to not have a debt. Instead of fixing society so that nobody has to work through college in order to avoid indentured servitude (and in order to be able to focus on their academics 100% instead of on what they will eat tomorrow), they perpetuate the heroic choice to deliver pizza while in college instead of hitting the books full time or reading outside required curriculum or...
To each their own, we are all prisoners of our minds?
You implied that all millennials are in the same position as you are, but that is not true. Two of my millennial kids, ages 25 and 27, own their own homes. Both are single and both work in fields only marginally related to their degrees. It remains to be seen if they made good choices for the long-term, but the point is that they are seeking their own solutions instead of waiting around for society/government to provide solutions. You can do that too.
Abbreviated post for bolded.
You are so right SimplySagacious.
When did working for what you want become a bad thing? When did it become alright to always depend on the charity and largess of government instead of providing for yourself and family become a good thing?
I am not that old, but still remember when I would hear folks say something like, "yeah, he drinks too much, cusses too much, doesn't go to church, but he's a hard worker and a good hand!"
Now it's more like, " He drinks too much, shoots up everyday, beats his baby momma, has never held a job, but boy does he know how to work the system!"
When did a drop in morality become something to be lauded?
My grandparents worked hard, my parents worked hard, and they passed a work ethic onto me and my siblings that stood us in good stead for providing for ourselves, for moving up in the world, for taking care of ourselves and our family, but while some of my nieces and nephews seem to have inherited that gene, at least one is a budding socialist that hates to have to do anything except play on the computer.
When did breaking a sweat (except in a gym) while working become a bad thing? Why are folks that actually strive to get ahead suddenly dumb for not wanting to spend all their time partying and wasting their lives instead of creating or building, doing something they can be proud of, suddenly not the ones to emmulate?
I wasted several years and a lot of money on a degree, that ultimately has nothing to do with my work, but it was paid for, so why is it a bad thing that I could maintain a 3.8 - 4.0 grade average with a major in Electrical Engineering, while working 2 extra jobs? Was it because I didn't spend all my time drinking and chasing women, or attending all the stupid football games????
There is a major disconnect between what was and what is. Is it any wonder that so many people worry about the future and prep?
Seems like the only logical conclusion to me when the country seems to be in a long lingering malise as it slowly dies from ideas like socialism where it's better to live under the heel of a dictator than work a full shift for your pay.
Sorry, I just had to interview another "you owe me everything and I shouldn't have to do anything for it" recent college grad with no ambition for a very good paying job my company is offering.
This kid's first questions were about how many paid vacation days, sick days and holidays we offer
That idiot's only qualification was their diploma. Not a word asking about the work we do or what would be expected of them, not a word about advancement opportunities, just another good little socialist obammabot wanting everything given to them for nothing.
My rant is over, but boy I needed that.
I'd rather take someone with no qualifications at all off the street and train them into the position if they were willing to work over some educated moron that would have no benefit to the company. There's one guy in the applicant pool that has no education past his GED, but is a hustler and a go getter. He has his own little business mowing lawns, and has been supporting himself and his wife and little baby doing that.
He doesn't have even the minimum qualifications for the job, but had the adacity and desire to improve himself that he was willing to take a chance and reach for the stars. In his interview he asked very good questions about what we do and asked if we had any reccomendations for night schools he could take to improve his chances for getting a job like this. He was dressed cleanly, but inexpensively. He had a recent haircut, brought in a list of questions for us about the actual work, was attentive, seemed quick witted and honest with his answers, If that guy had had a diploma of some sort, even the HR tech on the team would have voted to hire him on the spot.
I think I may give him a try, at least he isn't scared of work.
Last edited by MTSilvertip; 10-29-2015 at 01:20 PM..
There's one guy in the applicant pool that has no education past his GED, but is a hustler and a go getter. He has his own little business mowing lawns, and has been supporting himself and his wife and little baby doing that.
He doesn't have even the minimum qualifications for the job, but had the adacity and desire to improve himself that he was willing to take a chance and reach for the stars. In his interview he asked very good questions about what we do and asked if we had any reccomendations for night schools he could take to improve his chances for getting a job like this. He was dressed cleanly, but inexpensively. He had a recent haircut, brought in a list of questions for us about the actual work, was attentive, seemed quick witted and honest with his answers, If that guy had had a diploma of some sort, even the HR tech on the team would have voted to hire him on the spot.
I think I may give him a try, at least he isn't scared of work.
Sounds like you've got yourself a winner there!
He sounds exactly like most of my former employees. I was looking for ambition, initiative; a guy who wouldn't whine if I radio'd him at 4:45 pm on a Friday afternoon, to drive over to the gravel pit and pick up a truckload of crushed stone. He knew he'd be on OT for at least a half hour, with damn little notice. But we needed to have that stone for 5 am on Saturday morning, before the pit opened.
Fancy degrees are a dime a dozen. Finding a young man with intelligence, interest and the right attitude, is not so easy. Grab that guy...and begin to ask yourself, what are the real qualifications for that job?
I wasted several years and a lot of money on a degree
That much is obvious, however, I suppose it needed to be said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
Seems like the only logical conclusion to me when the country seems to be in a long lingering malise as it slowly dies from ideas like socialism where it's better to live under the heel of a dictator than work a full shift for your pay.
Yeah, all them LAZY Swedes and Norwegians and Germans living under the boot of...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
This kid's first questions were about how many paid vacation days, sick days and holidays we offer
Yeah, 'cause many companies hire someone to work from 8 to 5 and then routinely make them stay until 8 (many times trying not to pay overtime), all because they don't want to hire the proper amount of people to do the job and hope that one person will break their back and forget about their family and home while working his/her a** off so that the CEO can keep getting richer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
just another good little socialist obammabot wanting everything given to them for nothing.
All that education and money REALLY was wasted with you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
I'd rather take someone with no qualifications at all off the street and train them into the position if they were willing to work over some educated moron that would have no benefit to the company.
Yeah, if you are hiring someone to do a job where no education is necessary - sure, you can train anyone to operate a mower (well, ALMOST ANYONE).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
He doesn't have even the minimum qualifications for the job, but had the adacity and desire to improve himself that he was willing to take a chance and reach for the stars. In his interview he asked very good questions about what we do and asked if we had any reccomendations for night schools he could take to improve his chances for getting a job like this. He was dressed cleanly, but inexpensively. He had a recent haircut, brought in a list of questions for us about the actual work, was attentive, seemed quick witted and honest with his answers, If that guy had had a diploma of some sort, even the HR tech on the team would have voted to hire him on the spot.
Has the above paragraph been taken from a Glenn Beck show? Are you going to "cry for 'merica" at the end of this "episode"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
I think I may give him a try, at least he isn't scared of work.
Glad your company has you for a hiring manager!! You guys will go far
He sounds exactly like most of my former employees. I was looking for ambition, initiative; a guy who wouldn't whine if I radio'd him at 4:45 pm on a Friday afternoon, to drive over to the gravel pit and pick up a truckload of crushed stone. He knew he'd be on OT for at least a half hour, with damn little notice. But we needed to have that stone for 5 am on Saturday morning, before the pit opened.
Fancy degrees are a dime a dozen. Finding a young man with intelligence, interest and the right attitude, is not so easy. Grab that guy...and begin to ask yourself, what are the real qualifications for that job?
I agree, but I have to argue with the others on the committee that have tunnel vision and can't see anything but a diploma. Skills, knowledge, experience, drive, those things don't count, the only thing that matters is if just if they went to the right college or university
Most of the jobs I've worked over the years valued those qualities, but now we have so many folks that have their value wrapped up in which school they went to, it can be difficult to get to the good people who actually want to work and get around those that can't see past the end of their own nose which is stuck way up in the air.
This job starts at over $40k/year, so it's not just some burger flipper job, (really good money in Montana so there's lots of competition when we have an open position), but it needs someone that is willing to work and grow in the company. It has full benefits including dental insurance, and does offer paid vacation and sick days, so this isn't a job that I fill lightly. We invest a lot of time and money into each new hire, so I want someone that can do the job, not just sit in a classroom. It takes about a year of training before any new hire is deemed proficient, in part because there aren't any colleges that teach what we do. They can teach law or business, but there's a huge difference between classroom theory and practical application.
My firm deals with business law, not an easy field but a necessary one. we help clients establish their businesses and offer advice on making a successful company out of a small business. I've hired paralegals, people with business majors, etc. and honestly, I prefer someone that has a little fire in their belly, that has the desire to work and make the job theirs. The folks that have had to meet a payday, who know that success doesn't come from 9-5, that going above and beyond are the difference between growing and excelling, or the failure of the business.
People that take pride in their work, and are willing to do what it takes to succeed.
It's a small company, only 50+ people, so we depend on each other to make sure the work is done because everyone has a stake in the success or failure of the company. It used to be called being part of a team.
Nowadays there are so many that poo-poo a good work ethic as "selling out to the man" or some such nonsense.
If a company, especially a small specialized one, can do well then there are raises for everyone, there is money for new equipment to make the job easier, it makes for a better work atmosphere when everyone is pulling their share of the load.
Those that only come in at exactly punch in time, work their set 8 hours and run for the door at quitting time are a dime a dozen and hurt the moral of the entire office because everyone knows they have to pick up the slack for those not pulling their fair share of the load.
I was raised on a ranch where you rode for the brand. You had faith in the strawboss and depended on him doing his job, and he had faith in the owner doing his job, and the owner depended on the hands as a unit so that all prospered. You did what you had to do to get the job done. Not how tough it was, not how long it took, but doing it right could spell the diffence between making a profit and keeping the job, or letting everyone down and having the ranch have to let everyone go.
Those that do go that extra mile can quickly climb to the top in my company, no matter where they start out. Those that pin everything to their degree and decide that will carry them all the way are in for a sad awakening.
I don't know when doing an honest day's work for an honest day's wage went out of style, but it's sure a pity that it did.
Last edited by MTSilvertip; 10-29-2015 at 04:06 PM..
You are not a communist, are you?
Just kidding. Well, Western and Eastern Europe both have free or almost free education, as well as free healthcare. It is funded by taxes but on average people are more educated AND live better with less stress etc. over there than here. However, every time you mention such a thing here, your head gets blown off with insults of being a communist. The funny thing is, most people hurling those insults do not understand the meaning of the word "communism", have no education or interest in one (even though it would clearly benefit them) and almost always complain about the taxes. At the same time, they fail to see that the current system we have here, one of exchange of money for a piece of paper (whose worth has gone down the toilet at the undergraduate level) is one that leads exactly to what you said above - indentured servitude for people just starting out in life. Then the same people hurling the insults say that the Western/Eastern Europeans are not free and that we are. Or the same people hurling the insults are the ones who cannot afford to see a doctor because they have no health insurance. How messed up is that? I have given up on these arguments some time ago. Ignorance is widespread and it is only spreading even more... Isn't that the final desire of our corporate overlords? Dumb population paying for stuff they don't need, eating chemicals and cardboard and then paying for meds to fix that, spending all their lives in debt and yelling "we are the free ones" at the same time...
Ha, I agree with much of this. But I can't keep hitting the rep button for you, so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
Not superior intelligence, simple application of basic economic principals.
I thought you went to school.
Basic survival, prepping, self sufficency, economics all follow the same principal, using what you have to your best advantage.
Principle.
Sorry, usually I don't care for spelling/grammar corrections on the Internet, but in this context I couldn't resist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious
White slavery. You aren't supposed to know about this part of history, much less discuss it in todays PC world.
Many of those people were abducted and brought here, especially the children. For the few who came willingly in exchange for passage, there was no system in place to ensure their release after the 5 or 7 years.
Working for someone else is indentured servitude, IMO. Self-employment is the only way to avoid it. Many Boomers and their parents worked for a company for 30 years. While they were legally free to leave, most didn't because they were working toward a pension. That was just a different flavor of indentured servitude.
You implied that all millennials are in the same position as you are, but that is not true. Two of my millennial kids, ages 25 and 27, own their own homes. Both are single and both work in fields only marginally related to their degrees. It remains to be seen if they made good choices for the long-term, but the point is that they are seeking their own solutions instead of waiting around for society/government to provide solutions. You can do that too.
I would hope there is a middle path. To me the line is drawn when neither party is acting out of desperation or taking advantage, and both parties respect one another and can negotiate. It is something I see very little of in daily transactions with money in our current social and economic system, and it is only getting more severe.
I have met a few people my age and younger who have purchased homes. I am still trying to figure out how the young workforce operates. We are not represented well in trades, for instance, but many complain there is no work available. In my field, employees under the age of 30 are 2% of the workforce, which was a startling statistic that was not addressed in the industry magazine I got it from. They were more concerned with the gender wage gap and discrimination against women, but here I was wondering about discrimination against young people. Yet on the other hand, two other hires in their mid twenties complain that the work is beneath them all the time, just because they have a college degree and think they should be bringing in 60k immediately, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, and it is pretty disgusting. So who knows, there are a wide range of situations for a generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
I agree, but I have to argue with the others on the committee that have tunnel vision and can't see anything but a diploma. Skills, knowledge, experience, drive, those things don't count, the only thing that matters is if just if they went to the right college or university
Most of the jobs I've worked over the years valued those qualities, but now we have so many folks that have their value wrapped up in which school they went to, it can be difficult to get to the good people who actually want to work and get around those that can't see past the end of their own nose which is stuck way up in the air.
[...]
I don't know when doing an honest day's work for an honest day's wage went out of style, but it's sure a pity that it did.
When we hired new workers, we had the opposite problem. Anyone who was just out of college was immediately cast out because they didn't have enough experience. We interviewed people who were way overqualified for an entry level position and it was very awkward. We hired someone who was younger and had experience, but who is basically not interested in the job at all. I would have gone for a person with drive, regardless if they were just out of college, because you can have more confidence that they will make any lack of experience into a learning opportunity.
I agree with your last sentence. But, part of the reason it went out of style is parents of millennial generation kids always insisting that they "do better" than that.
Sorry, I just had to interview another "you owe me everything and I shouldn't have to do anything for it" recent college grad with no ambition for a very good paying job my company is offering.
This kid's first questions were about how many paid vacation days, sick days and holidays we offer
That idiot's only qualification was their diploma. Not a word asking about the work we do or what would be expected of them, not a word about advancement opportunities, just another good little socialist obammabot wanting everything given to them
He's the kind complaining today that no one will hire him so America must suck. They were taught that they don't have to compete at anything. The applicants who have turned themselves into total packages are finding great jobs. The slackers don't even comprehend what total package means.
Several days ago I read a news report about Sweden. The government wants to start cracking down to make college students graduate on time. Many are taking 5+ years because they are partying and just generally slacking off because tuition, housing, everything is paid for, and naturally the students are protesting such a change. Sweden is learning that when you hand everything to human beings on a silver platter, most will become unmotivated and develop a deeper sense of entitlement.
He's the kind complaining today that no one will hire him so America must suck. They were taught that they don't have to compete at anything. The applicants who have turned themselves into total packages are finding great jobs. The slackers don't even comprehend what total package means.
What's a total package? Someone who puts everything into the company and then gets sacked because they found a cheaper replacement for them in China or India? Or someone who needs to have the skills and dedication of 4 people because the company wants to save money while the CEO compensation is exploding over the board over the last few decades? Or someone who watches upper management sing praises about the company and demand total loyalty while at the same time plotting layoffs to save money so that the upper management can increase their salaries or make a better return on the stocks? Or maybe someone doing the job in earnest while watching upper mgmt rah-rah about the company until the next day the email comes that SVP of so and so department jumped ship to a different company? Please, stop spreading the bull*it. Corporate America has only one goal and the employees are on the bottom of that list. Treat people like s*it and like they are expendable and people will treat the jobs accordingly.
Several days ago I read a news report about Sweden. The government wants to start cracking down to make college students graduate on time. Many are taking 5+ years because they are partying and just generally slacking off because tuition, housing, everything is paid for, and naturally the students are protesting such a change. Sweden is learning that when you hand everything to human beings on a silver platter, most will become unmotivated and develop a deeper sense of entitlement.
Sweden is about to collapse. They have more refugees/migrants than any other EU country. Most of them are on the dole (the refs, not the Swedes) and the country simply cannot afford to support them. Estimates are that in a couple decades, there will be more refugees than native Swedes. You go figure.
Sweden is about to collapse. They have more refugees/migrants than any other EU country. Most of them are on the dole (the refs, not the Swedes) and the country simply cannot afford to support them. Estimates are that in a couple decades, there will be more refugees than native Swedes. You go figure.
This is what "progressivism" will getcha!
Did Glen Beck tell you all this???
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
