What about After SHTF is over? (farmers, lake, water, good)
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Here's something nobody ever seems to talk about much. What about after things are over and back to "normal."
Meaning, OK, we have a SHTF event, the grid goes down for two to six months in large areas, there is widespread lawlessness, looting, etc., the govt loses control, the populace runs amok, but eventually the govt reestablishes control and rule of law.
Now comes the pay backs. Like in the LA Riot of 93, hundreds, if not thousands of people were prosecuted after the riot for everything from looting to murder. However of around 55 killings I believe 22 are still unsolved, so about 2/3.
We need to consider our actions during a SHTF event and how they may affect us after the fact. IF you waste all your criminal neighbors and anoint yourself King of the Block during civil unrest - after things settle down their relatives or other authorities may well bring legal actions.
Anyway, I don't have the solution and not sure I even know the question -but I thought this might make a good topic for discussion because it is so open ended.
So what do YOU think? How do you think this sort of thing could play out? How can our actions under stress and danger come back to haunt us later? How might our choice of weapons or use of weapons (i.e offense vs defense) come back to bite us?
Those who engage in lawless behavior will obviously have to pay their dues to society, assuming that order is restored within weeks to months, and that the same type of society emerges afterwards as existed before.
That is a big assumption. Younger people seem incapable of understanding that things weren't always the same as they are now, and ever will be.
If the incident or crisis lasts for much longer than that -- and it could -- then a whole different set of questions emerge. Something that lasts for many years makes it much less likely that order, as we know it today, will ever be restored in its present form. The longer the time elapsed, the less likely that individuals will be held accountable for actions taken years before.
The seriousness of the event often determines how long before order as we now know it, is restored. We are not speaking here of a Katrina-like event, or even something of the magnitude of 9-11. Those events directly impacted only a small segment of the population. A true SHTF event will affect us all, from sea to shining sea. Something on the scale of a civil war, bigger than 1860s style.
How can our actions under stress and danger come back to haunt us later?
Great topic. It's gunna require some thought before giving a serious answer, but my first impression is an old saying: "Sicilians don't like Jehovah's Witnesses....in fact, we don't like any witnesses."
Those who engage in lawless behavior will obviously have to pay their dues to society, assuming that order is restored within weeks to months, and that the same type of society emerges afterwards as existed before.
That is a big assumption. Younger people seem incapable of understanding that things weren't always the same as they are now, and ever will be.
If the incident or crisis lasts for much longer than that -- and it could -- then a whole different set of questions emerge. Something that lasts for many years makes it much less likely that order, as we know it today, will ever be restored in its present form. The longer the time elapsed, the less likely that individuals will be held accountable for actions taken years before.
The seriousness of the event often determines how long before order as we now know it, is restored. We are not speaking here of a Katrina-like event, or even something of the magnitude of 9-11. Those events directly impacted only a small segment of the population. A true SHTF event will affect us all, from sea to shining sea. Something on the scale of a civil war, bigger than 1860s style.
Historically speaking, not everyone who engaged in lawless behavior paid the price. Quite the contrary, some of these folks went on to be large land owners, industrialists and started wealthy families that last up to this day.
As to what will happen after a hypothetical, mythical SHTF event? Who the heck knows....
We need to consider our actions during a SHTF event and how they may affect us after the fact. IF you waste all your criminal neighbors and anoint yourself King of the Block during civil unrest - after things settle down their relatives or other authorities may well bring legal actions.
History is written by the winners and/or survivors so make sure you end up on the right side. But the most important object is staying alive. Better to ask forgiveness than permission in other words.
Civilizations and countries have bitten the dust over and over again and continue to do so in our time. You just need to read the news about countries whose people are now refugees. We think we are so much smarter than other people but many intelligent people could not prevent what happened when Hitler invaded their country or ISIS or African warlords. I know of people in Asian countries who own US property in case they need to get out of trouble fast. These are not millionaires just people who have seen things happen in the past, maybe to their grandparents, and they are prepared. Millionaires have homes in many "safe" countries but the US is the preferred country due to our great democracy (not being sarcastic I believe we have a great country).
If you are living in a questionable neighborhood move NOW. If you are a minority (I include your political party in that term) in the state you live move to a place where you are in the mainstream. There is safety in numbers if you are the same bird with the same feathers.
A weather event such as Hurricane Katrina is 100 times more likely than a zombie invasion. If you are prepared to fend for yourself with no power, no water, etc you are at the head of the class when/if the network fails temporarily. If you aren't living paycheck to paycheck you are also far ahead of other people. If you have survival skills such as hunting, gardening, beer brewing, beekeeping, food preservation you are a winner already. And if your children are learning these skills bravo. If they don't sign them up for the Boy and Girl Scouts where they can learn skills.
Having skills in many areas is always a good thing. Knowing how to swim for example even if you live far from the lake or ocean. Having skills makes you more self-confident and less fearful of the unknown.
I went through a minor hurricane in Florida 9 years ago and was out of power for 5 days (neighbors got theirs on sooner). We discovered how poorly the county's information system was, no news on the radio for example and we had no power for TV or internet. No functional toilets because the local sewer lift station was electric powered. We found out how little neighborliness there was and decided that we didn't want to live in that area any more. Glad we learned a lesson with little impact to us.
Look around your neighborhood and city. Are they prepared? If the fire department is volunteer you won't have a fire department to rely on. What is the average age? If they are older YOU will be the one they want to help THEM.
Are they poor? They can't afford to help you.
History is written by the winners and/or survivors so make sure you end up on the right side. But the most important object is staying alive. Better to ask forgiveness than permission in other words.
So what do YOU think? How do you think this sort of thing could play out? How can our actions under stress and danger come back to haunt us later? How might our choice of weapons or use of weapons (i.e offense vs defense) come back to bite us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
The seriousness of the event often determines how long before order as we now know it, is restored. We are not speaking here of a Katrina-like event, or even something of the magnitude of 9-11. Those events directly impacted only a small segment of the population. A true SHTF event will affect us all, from sea to shining sea. Something on the scale of a civil war, bigger than 1860s style.
And therein lies the $64-trillion-dollar question to which no one has the answer and all of us can speculate upon. In honesty, less-industrialized societies might not have as much vulnerability, but they probably already have greater exposure to some of the possible results.
Nor can we predict exactly what flaw(s) in our defenses will turn up. or have the strongest effect, or over how wide an area, or how soon. And every reasonably-developed society has some sort of basic institution(s) or network(s) intended to preserve order -- but what works in one region or sub-sector might not in another.
We have already been given a few clues to these scenarios in the work of major disruptions such as Katrina and 9/11/01; one facet of this I personally find most unsettling is that "special" government responses in both cases found their way into such supposedly "impartial" standards as the Federal Revenue/Tax Codes. As in every other case, good intentions have their limits when everyone else's well-being is threatened.
Safety valves will continue to be tired down by idiot po0liticans who have no incentive to think beyond the next election; but when the boiler finally blows, I don't expect the full consequences, though they will be severe, to be either as immediate, or as evenly distributed as predicted by a minority of sensationalists.
Post-SHTF
Going back to a "constitutional" republican form of government wherein only a small fraction of Americans are "in" government will not be without its problems.
With the collapse of national socialism, the almost 60% of the population dependent upon government paychecks, pensions, and entitlements will be cut loose.
They will have to find ways to become productive or find patrons who will support them.
The public owned infrastructure will need to be sold off / privatized ASAP. This will also impact those who are non-producers and cannot afford to pay for the use of the infrastructure.
The military-industrial complex will have to find new patrons or implode, for lack of tax money.
International creditors will find themselves with a "haircut" in that the debt instruments may have drastically reduced trade value. In addition, with the end of FICA, and the collapse of socialism, the Federal Reserve Note would be undercapitalized and not fungible for trade.
On the other hand, those who are productive people will find that they're no longer "milked" by the predators and parasites. American family farmers and factories should find it much more profitable and rewarding to operate. There is much unfulfilled need and demand. With the end of usury and expansion of private promissory notes, trade should be greatly enhanced - at the local level.
For wider trade, a new means of accounting for trade will have to supplement the scarce gold and silver coin (no longer demonetized). I expect that banks will come up with national notes that are backed by local promissory notes, and get their cut via discounting said notes. As long as they do not engage in usury, it is not objectionable.
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