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You introduced your point about urbanized area during the exchange about Florence and other small metros/towns with auto plants, so I thought that's what you were referring to.
And Columbia still has the largest urbanized area population in the state, but just barely; it and Charleston are essentially tied in that respect.
The point doesn't stink; you're just having substantial trouble comprehending it. Just because I believe that two cities are in the same general tier hardly means that they are "veritably the same." I don't know how else to explain the point to you that Florence's size isn't detrimental to it getting a large-scale manufacturing plant of some sort as evidenced by places smaller and not much larger having one, so it would probably be best if you moved on since you can't grasp it. The point was even acknowledged by the person who made the original argument so that's even more of a reason for you to drop it.
The most recent figure I saw since the 2010 census showed Charleston edging Columbia. You're right that Columbia was just barely ahead of Charleston. The estimates of the past few years took care of that.
For the people that are continually saying Florence has nothing to offered must actually know the city itself and viewing the city from an outsiders perspective. I believe Florence has a good bit to offered. I feel if the city learn from how Greenville, NC approach shaping the image of itself. Relations between the city and FMU have been closely tied into the reshaping of the Downtown area and has work great so far. Also McLeod and its status of on the verge of trying to become a medical school seems more of a reality everyday. Future plans for a huge sports facility in the downtown area has broken ground and will be ready within two years. The city has taken steps to aim at that one large company that can help it become a lot more appealing of a city to go to. I don't know if that will involve a large manufacture or pharmaceuticals or health field in general. The whole Pee Dee area seems like the economic dead spot in SC but if Florence can continue to progress and become a stronger center then eventually that will spill over to the rest of the area.
As someone who lived there for four and a half years for college, and about a year after college fairly recently, I can say that Florence is growing and doing it right for an area its size and completely agree that FMU and Florence partnerships have been pivotal in developing downtown. I would say Greenville, NC is a great comparison to Florence and how they should grow.
My thing was that comparing it to the other big 3 in the state or striving for growth of the level seen in those three areas is a bit unrealistic for Florence on account of population size, labor pool, and overall contrast in the nature of those three to Florence. When I was there, a lot of people there kept talking about Florence in terms of growth, size, and importance as an economic center as on the level of Columbia, Greenville, and Charleston (even heard some folks refer to it as being the 4th of SC's main metros). That is just not the case or a realistic expectation and quite frankly an unfair comparison for Florence. When they would have meetings unveiling the Florence master plan, they would discuss things like building a financial center downtown, building a skyline, and having the mindset that all the area has to do is land one massive economic development project similar to a BMW and the area will do what Greenville did. Truth is, even if Florence were to land a massive scale economic development project like that, it still will not see the growth Greenville and the Upstate has nor will it be comparable to it. But just as you said, Greenville, NC is a much better comparison than Greenville, SC.
No, you're the one splitting hairs. All in all, Florence and Montgomery are a lot closer to being in the same weight class than Montgomery and SC's Big Three. You're nitpicking here while missing the overall point within the broader context in which I am making it.
Someone else made the size argument, which is why I mentioned Montgomery, West Point, and Blue Springs.
It doesn't necessarily have to be an auto plant, and Florence has a pretty decent manufacturing base in place already. Look at where these huge tire plants are going up in SC: Aiken, Sumter, Chester, etc. Surely Florence has the ability to support something along those lines, along with some large logistics/distribution operations due to its location.
Right, which is practically as large as Montgomery is relative to Florence, yet Jacksonville is clearly in a different tier than Columbia; that size difference is much less of a factor when comparing small metros well under half a million, such as Montgomery and Florence.
I agree with you that Montgomery would be a better comparison to Florence than the big 3 but I don't think Montgomery is an accurate comparison for Florence. Just like you are saying about Jacksonville to Columbia, the same differences still exist between Montgomery and Florence. Montgomery being the state capital, is more well-known than Florence, has a greater section of commerce from businesses that spur off of state government (lobbying firms, media outlets, political strategists, etc.) that also, coupled with state employees, brings a more educated population with a higher HHI to the area, despite its smaller size. Florence is not well known at all even in some cases within SC and especially out of SC. Even those in SC don't know much about Florence or what's there other than its on the way to the beach.
IMO, I would say that there are just as many if not more differences separating Florence and Montgomery than Columbia and Jacksonville.
I agree with you that Montgomery would be a better comparison to Florence than the big 3 but I don't think Montgomery is an accurate comparison for Florence. Just like you are saying about Jacksonville to Columbia, the same differences still exist between Montgomery and Florence. Montgomery being the state capital, is more well-known than Florence, has a greater section of commerce from businesses that spur off of state government (lobbying firms, media outlets, political strategists, etc.) that also, coupled with state employees, brings a more educated population with a higher HHI to the area, despite its smaller size. Florence is not well known at all even in some cases within SC and especially out of SC. Even those in SC don't know much about Florence or what's there other than its on the way to the beach.
IMO, I would say that there are just as many if not more differences separating Florence and Montgomery than Columbia and Jacksonville.
I can understand the arguments as far as Montgomery being a state capital and such, but in terms of size, it is in the same orbit as Florence and the other towns I mentioned. Size isn't a detriment for Florence in terms of getting a large manufacturing outfit.
I can understand the arguments as far as Montgomery being a state capital and such, but in terms of size, it is in the same orbit as Florence and the other towns I mentioned. Size isn't a detriment for Florence in terms of getting a large manufacturing outfit.
Well that's what I am saying, while Florence is much smaller than Montgomery, they would to some point fall into a similar population category as metros under 500k. But in other aspects including economic development, Florence and Montgomery are not all that comparable. I really even think population wise they aren't either considering that it is still a massive size difference we are talking about as well as the fact that Florence's MSA consists of Darlington and Florence counties and while Florence is clearly the largest city, most of the towns in both counties are much more stand alone than dependent on Florence. Some are more so than others, but places like Hartsville, which is the largest town in Darlington County, is not really dependent on Florence at all.
Now granted, I am not familiar with how the Montgomery MSA is and I am sure some of the towns there are the same way, I am just saying for Florence its MSA numbers are a bit misleading.
Well that's what I am saying, while Florence is much smaller than Montgomery, they would to some point fall into a similar population category as metros under 500k. But in other aspects including economic development, Florence and Montgomery are not all that comparable.
I agree with that, but I was making a reference to size in terms of a grouping of smaller places that have large auto plants in particular.
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I really even think population wise they aren't either considering that it is still a massive size difference we are talking about as well as the fact that Florence's MSA consists of Darlington and Florence counties and while Florence is clearly the largest city, most of the towns in both counties are much more stand alone than dependent on Florence. Some are more so than others, but places like Hartsville, which is the largest town in Darlington County, is not really dependent on Florence at all.
I wouldn't call a size difference of 168K "massive" at all, and interestingly enough, Georgetown, KY's MSA is that size and it has an auto plant. But again, I'm not specifically speaking of an auto plant but large-scale manufacturing/distribution facilities. Florence can handle that and is favorably located for such as well. In terms of other places in the Pee Dee and their relationship with Florence, that would obviously change with more economic development--similar to how BMW reshaped the economic landscape and commuting patterns of the Upstate.
I agree with that, but I was making a reference to size in terms of a grouping of smaller places that have large auto plants in particular.
I wouldn't call a size difference of 168K "massive" at all, and interestingly enough, Georgetown, KY's MSA is that size and it has an auto plant. But again, I'm not specifically speaking of an auto plant but large-scale manufacturing/distribution facilities. Florence can handle that and is favorably located for such as well. In terms of other places in the Pee Dee and their relationship with Florence, that would obviously change with more economic development--similar to how BMW reshaped the economic landscape and commuting patterns of the Upstate.
Well I think it could, but lets take a look at West Point, Hot Springs, and Georgetown Ky and see the changes that took place there with the addition of their plants and that would be more than likely the result in Florence as opposed to what happened in Greenville. I dont disagree that it would change the landscape, but I dont know again if BMW and Greenville would be an accurate comparison considering the population differences of the Upstate pre BMW as well as the existing industry there being much larger than Florence's is now.
Bottom line is I don't really see the Pee Dee, even with a major economic announcement, ever rivaling the Upstate or becoming like the Upstate did after BMW came in.
Well I think it could, but lets take a look at West Point, Hot Springs, and Georgetown Ky and see the changes that took place there with the addition of their plants and that would be more than likely the result in Florence as opposed to what happened in Greenville. I dont disagree that it would change the landscape, but I dont know again if BMW and Greenville would be an accurate comparison considering the population differences of the Upstate pre BMW as well as the existing industry there being much larger than Florence's is now.
Bottom line is I don't really see the Pee Dee, even with a major economic announcement, ever rivaling the Upstate or becoming like the Upstate did after BMW came in.
Oh no, my argument isn't that the Pee Dee would rival the Upstate or even the Midlands or Lowcountry, but that I believe the area has a lot of untapped potential as far as manufacturing, logistics, and distribution go. The region's assets aren't really capitalized on as much as they could be.
And although it's pretty much a non-starter, I think extending I-20 to Wilmington would truly be a boon for the region, giving it direct interstate access to three ports.
The point doesn't stink; you're just having substantial trouble comprehending it. Just because I believe that two cities are in the same general tier hardly means that they are "veritably the same." I don't know how else to explain the point to you that Florence's size isn't detrimental to it getting a large-scale manufacturing plant of some sort as evidenced by places smaller and not much larger having one, so it would probably be best if you moved on since you can't grasp it. The point was even acknowledged by the person who made the original argument so that's even more of a reason for you to drop it.
Funny, other folks have said your point isn't valid, but it's my fault because I can't grasp it? Haha.
Funny, other folks have said your point isn't valid, but it's my fault because I can't grasp it? Haha.
And others have said they see my point and talked about other factors aside from size that play a role here.
Time to move on.
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