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No however the I-90 I-29 exchange makes sense. It would clear the traffic in and out in a timely fashion.
Jump on interstate and be across town in 15 minutes. Go through town and double that time...
Closer to the interstate the quicker you can disperse traffic. Say you have access off on 60th st North turn people west and take Tea Ellis RD and turn turn east and people can either go down 60th st. Or to the Interstate. Quick efficient and more effective than any downtown venue
But a majority of the events will have people from in town, and think about it. Where is the majority of the population in Sioux Falls and which way is it growing? Its growing south, west, and east, not north. Plus where is the economic return in that? Some family quick stopping at a McDonalds up there to eat and go? I don't think so.
If all you are going to market is the in town group there really is no need for an event center.
I think you might rethink this idea. Do you have any idea how much revenue from sales, taxes and others you collect from out of town visitors? How many people visit Sioux Falls for services or recreation?
The mind set that most of the users are going to be local area seems quite short sighted.
I don't think that they will ever build the event center downtown because of the things that are going on around there. They are trying to redo Pettigrew Heights (which isn't working very well by the way), Falls to the Park is also not moving very smoothly. Why try to build something else downtown that would move very slowly. You never specified that the chain restaurants had to be from South Dakota, what if Marlin's put a location up there, would you frequent that because its a chain restaurant from South Dakota? You mentioned the city is growing every direction but North, a PERFECT reason to put it there, make the city more evenly balanced, the city needs to expand in all directions, not just a couple......What do you count as the metro area? I'm local, I live in Harrisburg and if there was an event at an event center located at I90/I29 I'd be a lot more likely to go to it then to one downtown because I hate the way downtown is laid out with Phillips Ave and such.....The traffic, no matter how you spin it will be horrendous, think Minnesota or 41st during Rush hour for the next 2 hrs while you try to get all those people out.....
Here are just a few cities that have Arena's that are 1 Mile or more from an interstate exit.
-Rapid City (140,000)
-Columbia, SC (800,000)
-Atlanta, GA (5,500,000)
-Rockford, IL (200,000)
-Billings, MT (180,000)
-Sioux Falls, SD (240,000)
-Council Bluffs, IA (800,000 w/ Omaha)
-Amarillo, TX (230,000)
-Indianapolis, IN (2,000,000)
-Chicago, IL (10,000,000)
-Bloomington, IL (120,00)
-Muskegon, MI (155,000)
-Las Vegas, NV (2,000,000)
-Yakima, WA (270,000)
I'll speak to a couple that I'm familiar with..
Rapid City (Rushmore Plaza Civic Center) - Haven't been there in many years but it appears to be less than a mile from I90 and is right next to an interstate spur (190) - Can't speak to the parking but it seems to be very accessible to interstate access.
Omaha (Quest Center) - Was there last year. Much less than a mile from I29 and is just off the 480 spur. - Downtown, so we got there early and parked in onsite parking. - Very accessible because of the interstate access.
Council Bluffs (Mid America Center) - There twice in last 6 months. Maybe 1/2 mile from I29. - Even though it is right off the interstate, it's still painful to get to if going to a large event (2 lane none divided road). We were actually backed up onto the interstate.
I also looked up the "Ralph" in Grand Forks. It is less than a mile directly off of I29 on Highway 2.
Here's one not on your list:
Fargo, ND (Fargo Dome) - Was there in February. About 1.5 miles directly off of I29 (Very easy to get to.)
I think access is a very important part of the equation and the Arena has it. I would say the Arena location is very comparable to the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center as far as accessibility as it's about a mile from I29. Russell is a divided four lane that can handle a decent amount of traffic.
The downtown location is almost 4 miles (Using Russell) and 3.3 miles (using 12th) from I29.
I live in the south central part of SF. When I go to the Arena, I take I29 to Russell (10 minutes). If I'm going to the proposed Downtown location (15+ minutes), I have to go up Minnesota, take 6th or 8th (These would probably need to be significantly improved to handle large traffic flow), probably park on the street or in one of the ramps and walk across the river to the Event Center. If you’re coming from the West side, you’re probably going to take Russell or 12th to Minnesota and then find your way onto 8th or 6th.
Have you ever tried to get to the Target Center in Minneapolis? Oh there's plenty of parking.. but people have a hard time locating the ramps and drive around endlessly creating traffic problems in the meantime. When you do find a spot, you're going to do a significant amount of walking..
I know you're young and probably like a little fresh air and a brisk walk but there are plenty of people who find walking even one block very challenging. We all know how slippery the sidewalks can be and how bitter the wind-chill can get during the winter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsdflyer
Now by saying that "moving the arena Downtown would ruin those restaurants", thats not true because you still have the Convention Center, SF Canaries Stadium, and Howard Wood Field.
I’m not going to say moving the Arena would ruin these restaurants but You’re taking the Storm, Stampede and Skyforce crowds away which will hurt their business. Howard Wood hosts High School football games almost exclusively.. And the Convention Centers crowds are typically going for parties or events that have their own food served.
It seems to me that you’re (fsdflyer) throwing things against the wall and hoping they stick.
Believe me, I want downtown to flourish. I would love to see something like Old Market in Omaha right here in Sioux Falls but I don’t want the city to make a very expensive mistake that I will be paying on for the next 20 years just to “revitalize” downtown. I think access is key to the success of a new Event Center and if it ever comes to a vote, I will not vote for it downtown unless significant access improvements are made and ample parking is located onsite. Both of which I do not see in this plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsdflyer
Yes, during interviews and presentations they have always wanted to leave the Arena open for the Skyforce and Stampede.
Absolutely ridiculous leaving an old building that isn't designed for Hockey use up.
If this is true, I won’t be voting for any sort of new Event Center!
PS.. Sorry this is so wordy but this has been bugging me since they first proposed it downtown.
But a majority of the events will have people from in town, and think about it. Where is the majority of the population in Sioux Falls and which way is it growing? Its growing south, west, and east, not north. Plus where is the economic return in that? Some family quick stopping at a McDonalds up there to eat and go? I don't think so.
I wouldn't say the majority... When the events center is built, you are going to see a lot of "out of town" guests...
Sioux Falls is growing on all sides. Which will, in turn, make downtown more congested.
I wouldn't say the majority... When the events center is built, you are going to see a lot of "out of town" guests...
Sioux Falls is growing on all sides. Which will, in turn, make downtown more congested.
I guess we're on 2 different wavelengths.
I don't see where you get that from! Unless there is significant growth downtown with Businesses and Condos and restaurants, you wont see any more congestion then there is now. By growing on all sides, (sorry, but the fastest are west, south, and east) you are going to have people who work in different parts of the city unless you bring in more business downtown, then more people will be down there. There is a good and bad to that. By bringing in more business downtown, that means there will be more people who work down there, but with the addition of more offices and work places down there, will come more Condos, Lofts, and Apartments, which means instead of increased car traffic, you will see more pedestrian traffic and more mass transit traffic.
Rapid City (Rushmore Plaza Civic Center) - Haven't been there in many years but it appears to be less than a mile from I90 and is right next to an interstate spur (190) - Can't speak to the parking but it seems to be very accessible to interstate access.
Omaha (Quest Center) - Was there last year. Much less than a mile from I29 and is just off the 480 spur. - Downtown, so we got there early and parked in onsite parking. - Very accessible because of the interstate access.
Council Bluffs (Mid America Center) - There twice in last 6 months. Maybe 1/2 mile from I29. - Even though it is right off the interstate, it's still painful to get to if going to a large event (2 lane none divided road). We were actually backed up onto the interstate.
I also looked up the "Ralph" in Grand Forks. It is less than a mile directly off of I29 on Highway 2.
Here's one not on your list:
Fargo, ND (Fargo Dome) - Was there in February. About 1.5 miles directly off of I29 (Very easy to get to.)
I think access is a very important part of the equation and the Arena has it. I would say the Arena location is very comparable to the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center as far as accessibility as it's about a mile from I29. Russell is a divided four lane that can handle a decent amount of traffic.
The downtown location is almost 4 miles (Using Russell) and 3.3 miles (using 12th) from I29.
I live in the south central part of SF. When I go to the Arena, I take I29 to Russell (10 minutes). If I'm going to the proposed Downtown location (15+ minutes), I have to go up Minnesota, take 6th or 8th (These would probably need to be significantly improved to handle large traffic flow), probably park on the street or in one of the ramps and walk across the river to the Event Center. If you’re coming from the West side, you’re probably going to take Russell or 12th to Minnesota and then find your way onto 8th or 6th.
Have you ever tried to get to the Target Center in Minneapolis? Oh there's plenty of parking.. but people have a hard time locating the ramps and drive around endlessly creating traffic problems in the meantime. When you do find a spot, you're going to do a significant amount of walking..
I know you're young and probably like a little fresh air and a brisk walk but there are plenty of people who find walking even one block very challenging. We all know how slippery the sidewalks can be and how bitter the wind-chill can get during the winter.
I’m not going to say moving the Arena would ruin these restaurants but You’re taking the Storm, Stampede and Skyforce crowds away which will hurt their business. Howard Wood hosts High School football games almost exclusively.. And the Convention Centers crowds are typically going for parties or events that have their own food served.
It seems to me that you’re (fsdflyer) throwing things against the wall and hoping they stick.
Believe me, I want downtown to flourish. I would love to see something like Old Market in Omaha right here in Sioux Falls but I don’t want the city to make a very expensive mistake that I will be paying on for the next 20 years just to “revitalize” downtown. I think access is key to the success of a new Event Center and if it ever comes to a vote, I will not vote for it downtown unless significant access improvements are made and ample parking is located onsite. Both of which I do not see in this plan.
If this is true, I won’t be voting for any sort of new Event Center!
PS.. Sorry this is so wordy but this has been bugging me since they first proposed it downtown.
Good post... Welcome to the forum!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsdflyer
I don't see where you get that from! Unless there is significant growth downtown with Businesses and Condos and restaurants, you wont see any more congestion then there is now. By growing on all sides, (sorry, but the fastest are west, south, and east) you are going to have people who work in different parts of the city unless you bring in more business downtown, then more people will be down there. There is a good and bad to that. By bringing in more business downtown, that means there will be more people who work down there, but with the addition of more offices and work places down there, will come more Condos, Lofts, and Apartments, which means instead of increased car traffic, you will see more pedestrian traffic and more mass transit traffic.
In the end, it'll add up... Look 20-30 years ahead... You need to look far down the road.
The northwest is growing considerably as well in my opinion. They may not be Beverly Hills-type of houses, but it is growth.
I reviewed the 2005 Task Force document, and that just solidifies my stand on a non-downtown location.
Obviously, the main point between the downtown and Howard Wood location is traffic.
For the Howard Wood location, 2 of the 3 intersections of concern have the ability to be expanded/improved.
Looking at the downtown location, I see 1 of 4 intersections of concern have the ability to be expanded/improved.
There is no way to expand/improve Minnesota Avenue anymore. This is a key route for those in southern SF. Looking at the maps of the Task Force report, 10th/Minnesota and 10th/Cliff are all operating right now at a LOS (level of service) E. 14th/Minnesota is operating at a LOS F now.
All 3 intersection will be at LOS F if a Events Center is built downtown.
The Task Force puts forth improvements for the traffic near the Downtown location.
8th & Reid - Traffic signal install - Not going to happen... its too close to a traffic signal at 2nd Ave
6th & Weber - Traffic signal install - I can see this happening
14th & Minnesota - I don't see how any of these improvements would be possible. Way too much "right of way" to purchase
10th & Cliff - This intersection is on the SD DOT STIP... It is scheduled for 2010. The STIP funding only provides for a partial of the recommended upgrades according to the Task Force report.
6th & Cliff - No way to upgrade, same as 14th/Minnesota
For the Howard Wood Field location:
The only problem intersection I see is Madison/Kiwanis.
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but there are plenty of people who find walking even one block very challenging. We all know how slippery the sidewalks can be and how bitter the wind-chill can get during the winter.
Unless there is significant growth downtown with Businesses and Condos and restaurants, you wont see any more congestion then there is now. By growing on all sides, (sorry, but the fastest are west, south, and east) you are going to have people who work in different parts of the city unless you bring in more business downtown, then more people will be down there. There is a good and bad to that. By bringing in more business downtown, that means there will be more people who work down there, but with the addition of more offices and work places down there, will come more Condos, Lofts, and Apartments, which means instead of increased car traffic, you will see more pedestrian traffic and more mass transit traffic.
