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Old 08-03-2021, 10:54 PM
 
Location: PRC
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Link to Livescience.com article

NASA have owned up to an error in reporting the severity of this incident where the Russian research module strangely fired its thrusters making the ISS spin out of control.

The Russian module would not accept instructions locally but needed the comms to come from the Russian space agency. This caused the ISS to spin allgedly for only 1.5 rotations yet the thrusters on the Russian module were firing for 15 minutes and spacecraft would not pass over the Russian comms centre for over an hour.
Quote:
he was soon told that the module could only receive direct commands from a ground station in Russia, which the space station wouldn't pass over for over an hour.
I am assuming that this could have been a disastrous event if the small thrusters had pushed the ISS towards the Earth or another space vehicle. Maybe this is a problem with having unmanned spacecraft delivering stuff to the ISS because there is no person available to help in an emergency.

NASA has stated not only that there was never any danger to the scientists on board (although they declared a "spacecraft emergency")
I wonder if this seriousness was leaked to the press and NASA was 'outed' to the New York Times and had to come clean. I cannot imagine they would explain this event naturally by themselves without some 'prompting'.

Quote:
Another NASA representative added to Space.com that "the 45 degree number was initially offered in the first minutes after the event occurred by our guidance, navigation and control officer in Mission Control, but were later updated following an analysis of the actual divergence."
The original report was that the ISS only moved 45 degrees but in actual fact it spun at least 1.5 times before it was stopped and reversed. These scientists are not astronauts who are trained in 3 dimensional geometry which is needed to stop a spacecraft spinning in space. So, how did they do it and get it under control. I wonder if we have still not been told the true account.

Quote:
"We'd reiterate that the maximum rate at which the change occurred was slow enough to go unnoticed by the crew members on board and all other station systems operated nominally during the entire event."
Isn't this worrying that the whole space station can be tumbling out of orbit and no-one feels it, and the instruments did not report it, and there was a two-line print-out of the event on the console.

Quote:
... a caution warning lit up.

"We had two messages — just two lines of code — saying that something was wrong," Scoville said.

After initially thinking the message could perhaps be a mistake, he told The New York Times, he soon realized that it was not and that Nauka was not only firing its thrusters, but that it was trying to actually pull away from the space station that it had just docked with.
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:01 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,698,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Link to Livescience.com article

NASA have owned up to an error in reporting the severity of this incident where the Russian research module strangely fired its thrusters making the ISS spin out of control.

The Russian module would not accept instructions locally but needed the comms to come from the Russian space agency. This caused the ISS to spin allgedly for only 1.5 rotations yet the thrusters on the Russian module were firing for 15 minutes and spacecraft would not pass over the Russian comms centre for over an hour.
I am assuming that this could have been a disastrous event if the small thrusters had pushed the ISS towards the Earth or another space vehicle. Maybe this is a problem with having unmanned spacecraft delivering stuff to the ISS because there is no person available to help in an emergency.
That's not how orbital spaceflight works. You need several kilometers per second of delta-V in order to deorbit the ISS or match orbits with another spacecraft. That would take weeks even if every bit of propellant were expended in a planned burn with all available thrusters, whatever delivery/reboost vehicle was docked, and all the lifeboats. There's not enough fuel on board to do anything fast--except destroy the station, which they came close to doing.

Quote:
NASA has stated not only that there was never any danger to the scientists on board (although they declared a "spacecraft emergency")
I wonder if this seriousness was leaked to the press and NASA was 'outed' to the New York Times and had to come clean. I cannot imagine they would explain this event naturally by themselves without some 'prompting'.
NASA is pretty upfront about anything that happens with the ISS, but they--as a rule--downplay the severity of any incident. A "spacecraft emergency" is just a designation to allocate all ground resources (antennae). In this case, an AVCS failure on the ISS would be a "manned spacecraft emergency" (1a), the highest priority designation of the maximum severity. Every available ground station would be cleared (stop supporting other missions like contacting probes or unmanned satellites) to support recovery efforts. You are correct that there is no higher priority emergency declaration.

There are worse things that can happen, but losing pointing on the ISS is a major incident, like something you'll read about in the next edition of the SMAD textbook and on Wikipedia. The astronauts were in extreme danger for two major reasons

1. The uncontrolled rotation of the station which results in:

a. Solar panels can't maintain pointing (depending on the axis of rotation) and power must be provided by batteries. This condition could destroy the station if not corrected.
b. Thermal control systems may not be able to maintain temperature control. This condition could destroy the station if not corrected.
c. High-gain antennas lose pointing and communications with ground control can degrade or be lost. This can hinder recovery and/or evacuation efforts.

2. The uncontrolled thruster firings which could result in:

a. Damage to the station structure and depressurization of the manned modules, which could kill everyone on board and would certainly require evacuation.
b. Damage to the exterior of the station from thruster plume impingement. Depending on the design and location of the crap Russian module, they may need to spacewalk to make sure the extended thruster firings didn't burn a hole in anything important.

Quote:
The original report was that the ISS only moved 45 degrees but in actual fact it spun at least 1.5 times before it was stopped and reversed. These scientists are not astronauts who are trained in 3 dimensional geometry which is needed to stop a spacecraft spinning in space. So, how did they do it and get it under control. I wonder if we have still not been told the true account.
Having a satellite go into an uncontrolled tumble before recovering it is not all that rare. Having it happen to a manned spacecraft is a big deal. Having it happen to a huge structure like the ISS is very scary. The station is decidedly larger than, say, the Gemini capsule, or any of the Soviet spacecraft that probably spun out of control and killed their pilots.

Ground controllers probably reoriented the station following a pre-planned checklist. All spacecraft have recovery plans for events like this. There is undoubtedly a contingency plan for the astronauts to "right the ship" even in the event of total communication blackout with ground control. Depending on the way the station was tumbling, the rotation was probably tracked and stopped using inertial gyroscopes and thrusters. The orientation was likely restored using sun trackers, earth trackers, and possibly star trackers. I don't know the details of the ISS's AVCS system, but I expect is is very complex and has many, many redundancies.

Quote:
Isn't this worrying that the whole space station can be tumbling out of orbit and no-one feels it, and the instruments did not report it, and there was a two-line print-out of the event on the console.
That's the astronaut toeing the NASA line (and only telling what he experienced in the beginning of the event). You can bet that a LOT of alarms were ringing in mission control. I don't know if mission controllers have a PA system they can use to alert the astronauts to problems, but any communication like that would be carefully vetted before they started giving alerts or instructions. One of the few things that movies get right about spaceflight is that you don't react before you analyze, which is why Mission Control is always telling astronauts to wait. If you react without knowing exactly what's happening, you're just as likely as not to make things worse.

It would be more worrying if the Astronauts did feel it. Anything that puts enough acceleration on the ISS to be sensed by the humans on board would likely destroy the station. It is basically a giant collection of tinkertoys constantly falling around the Earth. As Aerospace Engineers are fond of saying (not within earshot of passengers) an air[space]craft is just a collection of parts flying together in very close formation.

What we need to do to correct the situation is to stop working with the Russians. Their space program has gone straight into the toilet since the 90's. They have two things that still work: The Progress and Soyuz. No other piece of Russian-made equipment should ever get within 400 kilometers of the ISS. Yes, an American, Japanese, or European-made module would cost 4X as much, but it wouldn't be a leaky bunch of duct tape and chicken wire slapped together by bears on unicycles.
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Old 08-04-2021, 01:26 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
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I'd say they would be justified in detaching the module and making it de-orbit.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:23 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,698,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I'd say they would be justified in detaching the module and making it de-orbit.
Except that it's out of propellant now.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's a replacement for a key structural element (built by Russia in the '90's) that reached the end of it's life and WAS deorbited.
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Old 08-04-2021, 05:59 PM
 
Location: PRC
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Further information on this from Mysterywire The Russians are going to do an investigation to find out if there has been any damage as a result of the event.
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:05 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,698,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Further information on this from Mysterywire The Russians are going to do an investigation to find out if there has been any damage as a result of the event.
Oh goody.

I think the rest of the partners on the ISS should maybe do their own investigation. The Russians definition of what qualifies as "damage" might differ from ours.

Pretty amazing to see almost no news coverage of an event that got the ISS flight director tweeting "Never have I ever been so glad to see all the station's solar arrays and radiator panels still attached."
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:19 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,825 posts, read 6,536,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Except that it's out of propellant now.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's a replacement for a key structural element (built by Russia in the '90's) that reached the end of it's life and WAS deorbited.
So all is well now with the Russian module? Sure.
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Old 08-31-2021, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Germany
10 posts, read 4,773 times
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Updating information
Russian cosmonauts find new cracks in ISS module.
MOSCOW, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Russian cosmonauts have discovered new cracks in a segment of the International Space Station that could widen, a senior space official said on Monday, the latest in a series of setbacks.

"Superficial fissures have been found in some places on the Zarya module," Vladimir Solovyov, chief engineer of rocket and space corporation Energia, told RIA news agency. "This is bad and suggests that the fissures will begin to spread over time."

He did not say if the cracks had caused any air to leak.

The space official has said previously that much of the International Space Station's equipment is starting to age and has warned there could be an "avalanche" of broken equipment after 2025.

The space station has suffered several recent incidents. Russian officials last month said a software glitch, and a possible lapse in human attention, were to blame for throwing the ISS out of control.
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Old 09-03-2021, 03:32 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
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I wonder how much of that is metal stress from the station constantly moving in and out of sunlight? Perhaps future space modules will need additional exterior insulation.
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Old 09-04-2021, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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I happen to know a thing or two about the immense complexity of the ISS. And though this is a serious matter, it shouldn't be too surprising considering the enormous complexity of the space station. Instead of armchair rock throwing and criticism, some respect and consideration should be due for those involved with the constant monitoring and maintenance of this huge system.
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