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I am trying to help my Senior Mom. She 04 Subbie Outback Wagon 2.5. She has had a lot of problems with her car. Bad ECU, bad cat convert, reoccuring cruise control light coming, and now she pulled in the driveway last night and thd engine is smoking! This car has been well maintained and has less than 60k on it!
So I take a look with a flashlight and there is a lot of fluid on the passagener's side transaxle ( I know Toyota terms pardon me ) and underneath on the cross beam.
Can anyone suggest what it might be? I wonder if this car qualfies under the CA lemon law?
Damn I love subbies but this has been far less than reliable.
However, if you do a Google/Bing search for the exact content of California's Lemon Law, there might be a very vague possibility of getting relief under that law if this old car was purchased very recently.
First things first...the "fluid" on the passenger side transaxle is likely to be motor oil, and it is likely to be leaking from the valve cover gasket on that side of the engine. If this is the case, then simply re-torqueing the bolts that hold the valve cover might take care of this problem. If not, then it may be necessary to replace the VC gasket. When oil leaks in this manner, it will cause smoke when it hits the exhaust pipe.
Who told you that the ECU was "bad"?
While it is possible for an ECU to go bad, this diagnosis is frequently given by mechanics who are not able to properly diagnose a problem. Surely the Check Engine Light is lit up, which means that trouble codes have been stored. Get those codes read and then come back to this thread to report them to us. They will be in a format like, "P0123".
For a catalytic converter to go bad after just 60k miles indicates another problem, either with incomplete combustion or oil consumption in the cylinders. How often do you have to add oil? How often do you change the oil? Have the spark plugs been changed?
The Cruise Control will not function when certain trouble codes have been stored by the car's OBD system, so this makes it all the more certain that you need to find out which trouble codes have been stored, and then report them to us for more specific advice.
Has this car been maintained on the basis of elapsed time, or on the basis of odometer mileage?
I ask, because when cars are driven very little--such as this one that has apparently been driven only about 6k miles per year--the maintenance should be done on the basis of elapsed time, rather than odometer mileage.
So, for instance, if the maintenance schedule lists a procedure as, "every 30k miles, or every 30 months, whichever comes first", that means the procedure needs to be done every 2.5 years, no matter how few miles were accumulated in that time span. In 2.5 years, this car probably accumulated only ~15k miles, but it was due for the so-called "30k service" at that time, due to the severe usage that it probably gets. (Driving a car for only short-trip, local driving is considered to be, "severe service".)
Because this car has the 4-cylinder engine, the timing belt needs to be changed at 105k miles, or 8 years, whichever comes first. If this has not yet been done, the car is definitely overdue for this procedure, and when (not if) the timing belt snaps, the internal engine damage will make the current problems seem minor by comparison.
Has the timing belt been changed already?
If not, then that confirms my suspicion that many of this car's problems are the result of lax maintenance. If it has been maintained "by the book" in terms of elapsed time, rather than odometer mileage, then I apologize for that assumption.
Please report back to us in regard to all of my questions.
However, if you do a Google/Bing search for the exact content of California's Lemon Law, there might be a very vague possibility of getting relief under that law if this old car was purchased very recently.
First things first...the "fluid" on the passenger side transaxle is likely to be motor oil, and it is likely to be leaking from the valve cover gasket on that side of the engine. If this is the case, then simply re-torqueing the bolts that hold the valve cover might take care of this problem. If not, then it may be necessary to replace the VC gasket. When oil leaks in this manner, it will cause smoke when it hits the exhaust pipe.
Who told you that the ECU was "bad"?
While it is possible for an ECU to go bad, this diagnosis is frequently given by mechanics who are not able to properly diagnose a problem. Surely the Check Engine Light is lit up, which means that trouble codes have been stored. Get those codes read and then come back to this thread to report them to us. They will be in a format like, "P0123".
The dealer in told us the ECU was bad at 28k and replaced under warranty
For a catalytic converter to go bad after just 60k miles indicates another problem, either with incomplete combustion or oil consumption in the cylinders.
The Cat Convertor went bad too before 30k replaced by another dealer under warranty
How often do you have to add oil?
Not sure I live 4 states away just visting
How often do you change the oil?
I believe every 5k with semi synth
Have the spark plugs been changed?
Yes I know they have
The Cruise Control will not function when certain trouble codes have been stored by the car's OBD system, so this makes it all the more certain that you need to find out which trouble codes have been stored, and then report them to us for more specific advice.
Has this car been maintained on the basis of elapsed time, or on the basis of odometer mileage?
I ask, because when cars are driven very little--such as this one that has apparently been driven only about 6k miles per year--the maintenance should be done on the basis of elapsed time, rather than odometer mileage.
The car has primarily been maintained based on mileage
So, for instance, if the maintenance schedule lists a procedure as, "every 30k miles, or every 30 months, whichever comes first", that means the procedure needs to be done every 2.5 years, no matter how few miles were accumulated in that time span. In 2.5 years, this car probably accumulated only ~15k miles, but it was due for the so-called "30k service" at that time, due to the severe usage that it probably gets. (Driving a car for only short-trip, local driving is considered to be, "severe service".)
Because this car has the 4-cylinder engine, the timing belt needs to be changed at 105k miles, or 8 years, whichever comes first. If this has not yet been done, the car is definitely overdue for this procedure, and when (not if) the timing belt snaps, the internal engine damage will make the current problems seem minor by comparison.
Ok wasn't sure if it was chain or belt
Has the timing belt been changed already?
If not, then that confirms my suspicion that many of this car's problems are the result of lax maintenance. If it has been maintained "by the book" in terms of elapsed time, rather than odometer mileage, then I apologize for that assumption.
Please report back to us in regard to all of my questions.
I talked to service manager while typing this and he said valve cover gasket too.
you didn't mention where in Colorado you are located ...
but if anywhere along the Front Range, from Ft Collins south to Denver to Colorado Springs, there are numerous competent independent Subie specialist shops with knowledgeable & honest operators.
I suggest you take the car to one of those shops for an inspection and diagnosis/estimate. They may be able to fix what is necessary at reasonable cost rather than simply being parts replacers as found at the dealerships in the area.
you didn't mention where in Colorado you are located ...
but if anywhere along the Front Range, from Ft Collins south to Denver to Colorado Springs, there are numerous competent independent Subie specialist shops with knowledgeable & honest operators.
I suggest you take the car to one of those shops for an inspection and diagnosis/estimate. They may be able to fix what is necessary at reasonable cost rather than simply being parts replacers as found at the dealerships in the area.
Thanks I am in So Cal now at Mom's house so we are taking it to dealer here. He also agreed with OP that valve cover is most likely and ballpark $$$ is $500 which is doable.
This car has been a disappointment. My Toyotas never had this many problems and the last time I checked CR it had some black marks on this year, make, and model. May fix and sell.
Plus she doesn't even need AWD she is never coming back to CO due to health reasons.
This is a very important detail. I suggest that you ask your mother whether she (or somebody else) has checked the oil regularly, and added as necessary. Also--ask her how often she has to add a qt of oil.
How often do you change the oil?
I believe every 5k with semi synth
That means that this car really has the oil changed only ~ once a year. Given the Severe Service to which this car is subjected, that is not often enough. I believe that, if you check the maintenance schedule, it specifies an oil change every 3 months when the car is subjected to Severe Service.
Has this car been maintained on the basis of elapsed time, or on the basis of odometer mileage?
I ask, because when cars are driven very little--such as this one that has apparently been driven only about 6k miles per year--the maintenance should be done on the basis of elapsed time, rather than odometer mileage.
The car has primarily been maintained based on mileage
That is a very bad, and--ultimately--a very expensive approach to maintenance.
Because this car has the 4-cylinder engine, the timing belt needs to be changed at 105k miles, or 8 years, whichever comes first. If this has not yet been done, the car is definitely overdue for this procedure, and when (not if) the timing belt snaps, the internal engine damage will make the current problems seem minor by comparison.
Ok wasn't sure if it was chain or belt.
Well, unfortunately, this confirms for me that nobody has bothered to look at the maintenance schedule, as it clearly lists the timing belt procedure at the interval that I mentioned. This procedure is now overdue, and will result in very expensive engine damage when the belt snaps--with no warning whatsoever.
The engine will be running normally one minute, and the next minute, when the belt snaps, the engine will have pretty much self-destructed, leaving you with no engine power, no power assist for the steering, and very limited power assist for the brakes. Just imagine if that happens while passing a bunch of 18-wheelers at expressway speed, or while crossing RR tracks, or while driving through a dodgy neighborhood.
Thus, ignoring the need to replace the timing belt is a hazard to your mother's safety, as well as to her wallet, so I urge you to have the timing belt (and the water pump, the serpentine belt, and all belt tensioners) replaced when you have the valve cover gasket job taken care of.
$500 for replacement of valve cover gasket(s)? There are two, and if the car is going to be kept, it would probably be a good idea to replace both.
If you are going to dump the car, then only replace the one that is leaking, but...the price quote is way out of line. Go to an independent Subaru specialist for the valve cover gasket job & the timing belt job, and all of the other maintenance that has been skipped.
It turned out to be a ripped cv boot nothing to do with lack of maintenance.
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