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Anyone taking high doses should be taking it under medical supervision - not merely a doctor's knowledge. If he were truly taking this under medical supervision, he wouldn't be here asking us about doses, nor would he be confusing 1000 mg of niacin with 1000 mg of niaspan. He also would not likely be taking twice whatever dose is instructed according to the manufacturer's label. One tablet is already more than the upper intake level, by "A WHOLE LOT."
And taking -that- much more (that is to say, A WHOLE LOT, not to be confused with SOME MORE or A LOT, for all of you out there keeping track), on a daily basis, for an extended period of time, can contribute to serious bodily harm, including blindness. Super-dosing niacin, is not something you do without a doctor closely monitoring you. It can result in "bad things."
When I said "with his doctor's knowledge" and mentioned monitoring liver tests and blood sugar, I thought that pretty clearly implied being under a doctor's supervision.
"Are over-the-counter niacin supplements just as good as prescription niacin when it comes to increasing HDL cholesterol?
Possibly. Supplements sold over-the-counter (OTC) are not regulated like prescription medications. The ingredients, formulations and effect of over-the-counter niacin can vary widely. Again, it's necessary to work with your doctor if you are considering taking niacin to avoid harmful side effects. Don't start taking over-the-counter niacin supplements without talking to your doctor first."
Very high doses of niacin are indeed used to treat elevated cholesterol.
Although blindness has been reported with high doses, it is uncommon and reverses when the niacin is stopped.
Niacin is not needed in high doses as just a dietary supplement. Most people actually get enough from food. If it is taken for cholesterol problems, it should be prescribed by a doctor.
But you are not taking niaspan. You're taking niacin. Niaspan's dietary dosages are irrelevent, in your case, because you're not taking it.
2500, worded out, is two thousand, five hundred. It's also twenty-five hundred. I meant percent of, not times. I mis-phrased it. My intention is the same: It's two thousand, five hundred percent. Which is not to be confused with 100%, or one hundred percent. 25x the RDA is still more than the RDA by a WHOLE LOT. It's more than TWICE. That makes it more than just a lot. It makes it a whole lot. Or a real whole super duper lot. Suffice it to say, it's more than the max recommended, which means, whatever amount you're taking, whatever percentage or numeric value you want to assign to it, is more than you should be taking.
And regardless, you're not taking one caplet every day, as recommended by the instructions on the niacin. You're taking two per day, which is twice whatever it says to take, and what it says to take, is still more than what you should be taking.
Also regardless of my faulty math, you're taking a dose of one drug, that is recommended for a different drug. Don't do that, and you won't feel the symptoms you're complaining about.
Or - continue to do it, and stop complaining that you're experiencing the typical symptoms associated with taking the wrong dose.
AnonChick ... I sure hope your analytical skills are better than your math or your ability to follow the posters in a thread ....
I'm not the one who posted taking niacin ... and I am taking niaspan without any apaprent side effects; blood tests perscribed by my doc confirm beneficial results. Niaspan is simply timed slow release niacin, and it's a rather expensive prescription drug when there are so many alternatives that deliver the same product for much less money that are similarly efficacious.
RE: RDA's. I'm not a medical researcher, just a layman interested in pro-active good health. There are numerous vitamins and minerals that have relatively nominal RDA's, but have extensive clinical and anecdotal field experience with using substantially higher ... by many times ... doses. Vitamins C and D are but two that come to mind that have their proponents in the medical community as advising daily supplementation many times over in excess of the RDA. At that, there is extensive clinical evidence linking a deficiency of these to various medical conditions that are alleviated by those large doses.
There's recent medical evidence that many folk with hypothyroidism, for example, are consistently low D and benefit from taking massive doses.
I could also cite dietary intake of stuff like iron; ie, some people need significant supplementation to alleviate issues while others are highly sensitive to an oversupply in their systems and need to eliminate it from their diets and can even require routine blood draws to lower their iron levels (see hemachromatosis).
The fallacy of the RDA's is that it's a "one-size fits all" approach without regard for the substantial differences that exist from person to person in how their systems uptake and utilize different nutrients, minerals, and vitamins in their diets.
To assert that somebody taking 25X the RDA of a given vitamin/mineral under a doctor's supervision and testing is a mistake of the highest arrogant ignorance. You have no way of knowing what their physical/medical situation is or the beneficial effects going on in their body; at that, many supplements or drugs take awhile to become effective in a body system while presenting side effects to begin with that may yet be tolerated or alleviated over time.
sunspirit, it was my mistaking identities, caused by your confusing insertion of your changing subjects mid-stream.
P said: I take uber-doses of niacin.
I responded: Uber doses of niacin is bad for you.
Suzy responded to me: Maybe P is taking niaspan.
P responded to me: I'm taking niacin.
I responded to P: Uber doses of niacin is bad for you.
You responded to me: Niaspan is good stuff.
I - got confused, confused you for the OP, who was already being mostly unresponsive to the topic he created, and thought it was P, who was confusing Niaspan for Niacin, and being irresponsible.
You continued answering, and P stopped posting, thus adding to the confusion that I was paying attention to the wrong poster. I should have completely ignored you, because you weren't talking about what the OP is talking about at all.
And so, my apologies. I have no comment to you at all, because you're not talking about what the OP is talking about.
I have no comment to you at all, because you're not talking about what the OP is talking about.
Quote: AnonChick: "And taking -that- much more (that is to say, A WHOLE LOT, not to be confused with SOME MORE or A LOT, for all of you out there keeping track), on a daily basis, for an extended period of time, can contribute to serious bodily harm, including blindness. Super-dosing niacin, is not something you do without a doctor closely monitoring you. It can result in "bad things.""
Ah ... after your repeated rants about intake in excess of RDA amounts ...
did you totally miss my response about RDA levels in and of itself is not necessarily well founded?
as in "one size fits all" fallacy?
Even at "25 times" a RDA allowance, for some people ... it may not be enough of a given intake due to absorption or utilization levels for beneficial results.
"Recommendations for niacin and other nutrients are provided in the Dietary Reference Intakes (DRIs), which are developed by the Food and Nutrition Board at the Institute of Medicine. DRI is the term for a set of reference values that are used to plan and assess the nutrient intakes of healthy people. These values, which vary by age and gender, include:
Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA): average daily level of intake that is enough to meet the nutrient requirements of nearly all (97 - 98%) healthy people.
Adequate Intake (AI): when there is not enough evidence to develop an RDA, the AI is set at a level that is thought to ensure enough nutrition."
For an adult, the level to insure adequate intake is about 16 mg per day for males and 14 mg per day for females. Those amounts are sufficient to prevent symptoms of deficiency, a condition called pellagra.
Niacin is added to many cereals and baked goods and it is found in eggs, lean meat, fish, and poultry. Therefore most folks in the US do not need to supplement niacin.
Niacin is also used as a drug to raise good cholesterol and lower bad cholesterol. The doses needed to do this are much higher than the daily minimum. They are in the range of 1000 to 2000 mg per day. They are not "supplementary" doses but "therapeutic" doses.
Because niacin is considered a food supplement, it is available over the counter, even in the higher doses. That is what the OP is taking. Since OP appears to have left the building, we do not know whether he decided to take it himself or whether he was advised to take it by his doctor. The prescription forms of niacin, such as Niaspan, may cause less flushing but they are more expensive. Therefore, his doctor may have told him to take the OTC product.
However, the therapeutic doses can be associated with liver problems and some people will have their blood sugars go up. Periodic blood tests are a good idea. Therefore, no one should take high dose niacin without having those tests done. That means you need to talk to your doctor, see if high dose niacin is a good idea, and have regular follow up visits.
The flushing is caused by chemicals called prostaglandins. Aspirin and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications like ibuprofen are prostaglandin blockers and can reduce the flushing. One adult aspirin about thirty minutes before the niacin can reduce flushing. Again, anyone planning to take aspirin regularly should run it by his doctor and make sure there is not a reason to avoid it.
So, yes, it is possible to take niacin in much higher doses than are needed to prevent a deficiency, but it should be done under the care of a doctor. Someone who has normal cholesterol levels does not need more than the 14 to 16 mg per day.
Summary: Uber dosing of naicin can be bad for you. Don't do it if a doctor didn't specifically instruct you to do it, and then, only however much he told you to do it, and only for the reasons he told you to do it, and only for as long as he feels it safe for you to do it.
There is little-to-no reason for the majority of "people who eat food" to take niacin supplements *as supplements.* There IS reason for some people to take it as a drug, and if you fit the category of "some people who should take it as a drug," then I refer you back to the first sentence of the summary.
Suzy, I have a question about this. If you decide that you want to uber-dose on niacin to correct a cholesterol and HDL problem, is this a short term thing that you do just long enough to correct the problem or is it something you need to stay on for the rest of your life? I do agree with others that it should be done thru a physician and I will ask mine but she wants to put me on statins and I don't want to take them. This is the only symptom I have of a metabolic syndrome--blood pressure and glucose are normal.
I've been taking it for about a week steady. I take 2 pills during lunch which are 500mg each. Yesterday I took 2 right before bed and when I woke up I was feeling itchy and felt like I was getting hotter and hotter within seconds of waking up and laying in bed. I get up, get naked in front of the mirror and I looked like a lobster. My skin was extremely red, like a really bad sun burn. I woke the wife up to look at it and she started googling what it could be from. So I do what anyone would do, I went to work. On the way she texts me and tells me it's most likely from the Niacin and should wear off in 1 hour if it is indeed from that. Well 45 mins after waking up I stop and get gas for my car and what do you know the itching and redness is gone. If it hadn't gone away by Noon I was going to go to the walk in clinic.
Suffice to say I'll try just one a day for now on.
It's that "rush" that helps keep your arteries clear. It's a good thing. One pill should be enough. LOL
Um, I really hope you're misreading the label. The upper limit for niacin intake is under 40mg per day. You're saying you take 1000mg per day. That's 25 times the *maximum* recommended daily intake. The *suggested* daily intake is only 18mg/day for breastfeeding/pregnant women, 16mg/day for men, 14mg/day for women, and 2-12mg/day for children.
To compare:
1 gram is 100 mg.
Consuming 1.5 grams (or 150mg) can cause toxicity, with mild symptoms being flushing and itching, and more severe symptoms being eczema, indigestion, nausea, blindness (in the case of high-dose time-released niacin) and liver toxicity.
Niacin is water soluble. What the body doesn't use you pee out. The "suggested" daily intake means the amount that you need so you don't die. In most cases, you can take a billion times the MDR and still be fine (with the exception of Vitamin A).
Suzy, I have a question about this. If you decide that you want to uber-dose on niacin to correct a cholesterol and HDL problem, is this a short term thing that you do just long enough to correct the problem or is it something you need to stay on for the rest of your life? I do agree with others that it should be done thru a physician and I will ask mine but she wants to put me on statins and I don't want to take them. This is the only symptom I have of a metabolic syndrome--blood pressure and glucose are normal.
It's certainly worthwhile trying it, so do ask your doc.
If you've optimized your diet and you're exercising and the HDL is still low and the LDL is high, you could see significant benefit. Niacin can also lower triglycerides.
Unless something new comes along, yes, it might be long term use.
You could try it for a while and recheck the lipid panel.
Keep in mind that many people do well on statins, so you could fall back on that option if the niacin doesn't do the trick.
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