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Yes- I am defensive. Is it wrong to defend a lifestyle that served us well? Then and now. Our family enjoys a more simple life. You *are* trying to browbeat me into admitting something that is not true, just to align with your agenda... that a family cannot lead any sort of contented or fulfilling life on a very, very small income. You are wrong. Not in every case, of course, but your prevailing attitude seems to be that it is impossible to THRIVE on an income below poverty level. It is more than possible- it's just that so much of the population is uneducated on practices of budgeting, finances, frugality, and the benefits of a more simple/conservative lifestyle... it is so commonplace to carry debt balances from month to month and assume that neither vehicles nor homes can be purchased without incurring an oppressive amount of debt, that they spend a large part of their income on paying down the debt payments rather than their actual cost of living.
You did not bring up the poverty income level initially, not that it would have mattered in this discussion as more than a technical term, used by our federal government. You did mention "abject poverty" and described a dirty, soul-draining lifestyle. It was clear that we did not live that way at all. You continued to push the issue, asking if we were able to go to museums, have ice cream, etc. I said Yes. You are clearly agitated that your idea of a low income/below poverty level family didn't line up with reality. And it doesn't always- we are hardly unique. Not terribly common, I assume, but certainly not one-of-a-kind. There are so many more poverty-level families than you even realize that you know. Few people would have guessed that we had an income as low as we did. And why would they?
At $22K/year, we would have been able to do so much more! But- we probably would have saved most of it, as we do with the excess now. I suppose that, in your eyes, we continue to be deprived, because those same things are important to us and they cost little more now than they did then. And yes- I do take offense at that. I suppose exposing our children to the arts and finding simple and cost-effective ways to enjoy our time together is somehow depriving them? I don't see how but if you're intent on having your way, so be it. I have explained "poverty-level" vs. "abject poverty" as much as I possibly could and you refuse to recognize any of it. I defended my position, and re-defended it... and you have now mocked me for doing so. If you aren't going to even try to understand after all of this, discussing it with you further is clearly pointless.
Last edited by proulxfamily; 10-26-2009 at 12:33 PM..
acknight, explain to me how exactly Buffalo is significantly different than Syracuse? The Buffalo of today (which is basically a suburb of Toronto) not the Buffalo of 100 years ago.
Aside from being a bit more than twice its size? Even in decline it is still the 2nd largest city in this state and a major city at least within the northeast. There are 1.2-1.3M people in that metro. There's ~650k here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedsde
Your right. It is impossible to make permutations for every living style. That is why specific algorithms are created to take this into account. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. It seems like you think only your life-style is important. So every measure of standard should be put against what you do. Also, I think you are getting gypped if you are paying $14 for movies in Manhattan b/c the price is only $12.50.
Yes. And those algorithms show that Syracuse has an overall low cost of living, pretty much unless you're a pack a day smoker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedsde
Again you don't compare against anything outside the Northeast. Last time I checked, businesses were not picking up roots in Syracuse and moving to New Hampshire. They are moving to the Southeast, Southwest, etc. We are a unified country, which means no barriers of movement between regions. So keep the barriers out of your mind.
Every part of this country, generally speaking, nickels and dimes you for something. Services cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere. Go down to the southwest? Be prepared to pay twice as much for the same amount of land/house as here, and pay out the nose for water service. Go to the deep south? Your bill to keep your house cool will likely blow away the high cost of winter heating here. Go to the northern midwest? And you thought we got a lot of snow... it all levels out, more often than not, in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedsde
Also, nobody addressed my claim that Syracuse was not unique in being a city where you can live low-cost. So I guess that is true.
That would be because that wasn't your claim - your claim was that Syracuse was not a low cost city, and that it was at the more expensive end. Which is, as proven here, absolutely false.
Is it the only city with a low cost of living? Of course not. There's lots of them, all of which have their strengths and weaknesses.
I never said I was looking for grand old architecture. I am just not interested in boring shot-gun houses. If I'm buying into an older neighborhood it must possess the qualities that make an older neighborhood desirable over a newer neighborhood. And that trait is usually the diversity of the housing stock. The streets where the 80-90K houses are have houses that look like they are all built from the same blueprint.
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Having lived in the southwest, had a primary in Vegas and a apartment in LA I can state probably better than anyone else on this board that dollar for dollar Syracuse is a cheaper place to live across the board. The ONLY thing higher here compared to Vegas or LA is my property taxes, but everything else is much cheaper. As far as cookie cutter homes, I live in a neighborhood in Cicero, middle class I guess, where almost no two houses are the same, I think there is 2 in my development that are the same structural design.
You should be giving Proulx respect for what her family has attained on such a low income. Most people at that income bracket cant get by, and not only do they do so but they seem to have a pretty good life style
It is very clear that you are inferring that I live beyond my means and am really high-over my head in debt.
Could you please point out where this was done? I do believe I posted something along the lines of how many people, it seems, aren't accustomed to living on a strict budget/frugally/below their means. (And I would think that the housing burst, among other things, is an excellent indicator of that.) Because of that, *many people* don't know how to survive on a low income, much less how to live well.
I really cannot help if, for whatever reason, you've taken on some kind of guilt from my statement. And I certainly didn't intend to make you feel shame for a lifestyle I wouldn't even be able to begin to assume you lead. I'm sorry to have offended you that way... really, I never intended to. :/
hi i have a question : what zip codes can I look for that are in armory square or kool area of downtown where i do not have to be car bound?? lik if i wanna go to the shopping mall or the restaurants in downtown i can do it by walking not driving... thank u !!
hi i have a question : what zip codes can I look for that are in armory square or kool area of downtown where i do not have to be car bound?? lik if i wanna go to the shopping mall or the restaurants in downtown i can do it by walking not driving... thank u !!
Pretty much all of Downtown Syracuse is in 13202. Parts of Franklin Square are in 13204, though for that looking at street bounds is more important (13204 includes most of the west end of Syracuse, a lot more area than you are describing) - it's pretty much the triangle formed by I-81 to the east, I-690 to the south, and Spencer Street to the northwest.
Franklin Square has lots of nicer loft apartments, and more housing options often than Armory Square itself has (though they trend a bit pricier). Both areas are served by the bus system here.
Armory Square is a few blocks from where our current major transfer hub for the bus system is, though that is to move to the corner of Adams and Salina a few blocks further away in the next few years. Franklin Square is just north of the downtown area, so it's a bit further walking - but still pretty close, and near a few bus lines if I'm not mistaken.
Just to add my 2 cents -- I have lived in 7 different states in the last 15 years and the Syracuse area is BY FAR the most affordable. I mean, across the board on pretty much everything, including groceries, utilities, restaurants, kids' activities. Even my AAA membership was reduced by $20 when I moved here! The only area that is not less expensive is property taxes. My current house is assessed at 1/3 the value of my last house, but I am paying the same taxes. Overall, however, I was able to cut my expenses by nearly 1/2.
Just to add my 2 cents -- I have lived in 7 different states in the last 15 years and the Syracuse area is BY FAR the most affordable. I mean, across the board on pretty much everything, including groceries, utilities, restaurants, kids' activities. Even my AAA membership was reduced by $20 when I moved here! The only area that is not less expensive is property taxes. My current house is assessed at 1/3 the value of my last house, but I am paying the same taxes. Overall, however, I was able to cut my expenses by nearly 1/2.
I believe that. I think people get so caught up on the property tax thing, until they realize that if they go somewhere else, the other costs might offset the issue of property taxes that is in NY.
I believe that. I think people get so caught up on the property tax thing, until they realize that if they go somewhere else, the other costs might offset the issue of property taxes that is in NY.
Agreed. People get hung up on the property taxes as a % of value. Wouldn't you rather buy a 150K house in Syracuse that had $4,000 taxes than the same house for 250K in Charlotte that had $4,000 taxes?
Agreed. People get hung up on the property taxes as a % of value. Wouldn't you rather buy a 150K house in Syracuse that had $4,000 taxes than the same house for 250K in Charlotte that had $4,000 taxes?
Even if the taxes are higher, you still don't pay as much. At least the taxes go towards services. So, it is a matter of perspective too.
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