09-23-2012, 06:57 PM
2,729 posts, read
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Reputation: 2357
I just received a renewal notice over the weekend and my premium just went up by 40%
from last year, no claim and no change in coverage. It seems they don't want me. Tomorrow, off I go searching for another one I guess....
So, you better over estimate than under. $1500 looks too small for the house of your parameters.
11-03-2012, 12:10 PM
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Just an update for anyone curious or in the same boat I am:
I've gotten several quotes for different companies, Citizens, FrontLine, and Tower Hill. Citizens is the cheapest, of course not covering the screen enclosure and a liability limit of only $100,000. I think the cheapest rate was $1900 for the year through them.
Tower Hill ranged from $2700 through one agent to $5800 through another...and the differences are not that great. The $5800 doesn't include the screen enclosure while the cheaper policy does...go figure
FrontLine is anywhere from $2200-$2800 depending on if we want to cover the enclosure and ultimately what discounts the Wind Mit report gives us. I'm still inquiring about a higher deductible, so we'll see what happens.
With everything I've heard about Citizens, it seems like we'd be smart to go with another reasonably priced company if they'll take us. I'm assuming Citizens would be a nightmare if the area got hit with a decent sized storm. Anyone disagree?
Edit: I guess I should have mentioned we're currently in the process of purchasing a particular property as opposed to just looking like when I started the thread. The home falls in the parameters I mentioned in my first post, and the roof is shingle not tile.
Last edited by druthb00; 11-03-2012 at 12:21 PM ..
11-03-2012, 12:52 PM
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read
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Reputation: 6086
Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
druthb00
Thanks everyone so far. I guess I'll have to contact a couple of agents this week to get an idea of what we're looking at. This is the website I've seen in the past that had me thinking maybe our premium wouldn't be too ridiculous:
CHOICES - $150,000 Value - Pre-2001 Construction , it's amazing how different the rates are with "max. wind mitigation."
I know there are plenty of variables not factored into the example, but we plan on keeping deductibles relatively high and maximizing wind mitigation where reasonably possible (obviously down the road, not immediately.) I'm hoping staying in a non-flood zone and sticking with block construction will make a big difference.
11-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Location: Pinellas Park Florida
210 posts, read
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Reputation: 157
Stick with Citizens...A Florida taxpayer owned company. If the big one hits, taxpayers are on the hook anyway. No insurance co will have the money to cover a disaster. Make sure your home inspector includes the windmit and roof cert. Hip roofs and roof to wall attachments are your biggest credits. Roof coverings if permitted 2008 or later will add extra credit, impact windows or impact rated shutters are next. Sounds like your purchasing a newer home since that quote seems low, unless they have included the discounts.
11-03-2012, 01:09 PM
323 posts, read
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Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spring Hillian
Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.
That's exactly what I'm thinking
All of those things need to be done, too, because we don't have hurricane clips and the garage door could use to be replaced as could the windows in the next few years. So by the time we need a new Wind Mit report thing done, maybe we can have those issues fixed.
11-03-2012, 01:24 PM
Location: Pinellas Park Florida
210 posts, read
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Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spring Hillian
Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.
Easier to remove the soffit and use a palm nailer Or when the roof needs replacement to do it then. New permitted roof with clips = 800 to 900.00 a year in savings
11-03-2012, 01:30 PM
1,106 posts, read
2,282,760 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by
druthb00
With everything I've heard about Citizens, it seems like we'd be smart to go with another reasonably priced company if they'll take us. I'm assuming Citizens would be a nightmare if the area got hit with a decent sized storm. Anyone disagree?
I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.
These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.
From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."
A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times
11-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Location: Pinellas Park Florida
210 posts, read
576,628 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chi_tino
I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.
These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.
From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."
A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times
Great post...Now if we can keep the politicians fingers out of the kitty....
3 Reasons Florida's Citizens Loan Plan Is Bad Idea
11-03-2012, 02:02 PM
323 posts, read
684,707 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chi_tino
I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.
These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.
From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."
A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times
Thank you for your input. I'd have to question the companies selected to take over some of the Citizens policies as well, but the companies I'm considering have been around since before the last major storm. FrontLine was licensed in FL in 1998 and Tower Hill in 1997; and for anyone who's interested, this is the website where you can look up any insurance company that's licensed in the state:
http://www.floir.com/companysearch/index.aspx . Both companies have an "A" financial rating through Demotech (<< is this reputable? The website seems legitimate-enough, but I've never heard of it) as recently as August of this year.
That's a pretty hefty premium (up to 45%) to pay if we do get slammed, though. Not to mention, it won't be until after that premium hits 45% that everyone who doesn't have Citizens will be assessed.
Regardless, I see your point and we haven't taken out a policy as of now so I'm open to opinions/suggestions/etc.
Last edited by druthb00; 11-03-2012 at 02:14 PM ..
11-03-2012, 02:23 PM
1,106 posts, read
2,282,760 times
Reputation: 962
I insure monstrous costs (home, health) because the potential loss is a large percentage of my net worth. I only insure my car because I'm required to by law. All other "insurance" offers (home appliances, pet health, utility repairs, cell phone, etc) are essentially sucker's bets because the payout is capped at a very low level and the premium is way too high in relation to the tiny amount of coverage.
That said, any time I insure I will gladly pay to be convinced that the claim will actually be reimbursed. If my house is gone or I get cancer, I don't want shenanigans. I want to be fully compensated for the costs. If the goal is to save money, I can do that by choosing a high deductible, not by switching to a lower-rated insurer. My Citizens policy dropped almost 25% this year because my sinkhole odds are zero. Sinkhole-prone area premiums are finally starting to move toward reality.
Unfortunately,
1. Citizens policy prices are set by political will, not by any economic or actuarial means.
2. Citizens should be charging a premium , rather than a discount , compared to private insurers, because their policies are ultimately backed by the State.
3. If they were to charge "correct" prices for homeowners in sinkhole-prone areas, the prices would be obscene.
4. At these "correct" prices, private insurers would definitely enter the marketplace. They currently do not because the prices are being held artificially low.
Why don't they charge "correct" prices? See #1.
Last edited by chi_tino; 11-03-2012 at 02:34 PM ..
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)