Illegal to be completely off the grid? (Sharpes: for sale, health insurance)

[geeksweep]

Want solar panels? You still have to pay Florida utilities | WFTV

Was reading this. Sounds like theres some state law that forbids you to NOT hook up to the grid, even though you could generate all you need from solar - and EVEN if the power company lets you. First off, why the power company have any say in it and what reasoning does the state have for passing that law to begin with?

The only reason I can think of is, "because we said so" but thats not a valid argument - when it comes to constitutionality.

There really isn't any difference in that and then the state of FL saying you can’t grow your own garden because we need you to be in the grocery store to pay for food that someone else grew

[MyITGuy]

Thats politics and lobbying for you.

I'm not sure if its Florida law, but I've definitely seen it referenced at a city or county level as a condition of an occupancy permit.

[geeksweep]

Originally Posted by MyITGuy

Thats politics and lobbying for you.

I'm not sure if its Florida law, but I've definitely seen it referenced at a city or county level as a condition of an occupancy permit.

yeah but obviously thats totally unconstitutional. as long as you can show that your solar/battery hookup was done in a safe manner then i dont see the problem. the power company or the state cannot force you to buy electricity when you can get it from mother nature for free. Like i said before, the next step is telling people you can't grow your own garden because that keeps you from shopping at the grocery store.

[SharpestJim]

Originally Posted by geeksweep

yeah but obviously thats totally unconstitutional. as long as you can show that your solar/battery hookup was done in a safe manner then i dont see the problem. the power company or the state cannot force you to buy electricity when you can get it from mother nature for free. Like i said before, the next step is telling people you can't grow your own garden because that keeps you from shopping at the grocery store.

The government can force you to buy health insurance. So why not electricity, too?

[geeksweep]

Originally Posted by SharpestJim

The government can force you to buy health insurance. So why not electricity, too?

because the ACA was unconstitutional too and the only reason it was passed was because its a "tax" and not a penalty - even though the plantiffs and defendants (the government) defined it as a penalty. In other words the Supreme Court redefined it from a penalty to a tax so that could rule in favor on the defendants.. mind blowing. So i look forward to the day where this ruling will be reversed or we get a complete dismantling of it in the current adminstration.

other than that why is it that people can have a well and septic and thus be off of public water and sewer. I dont see any difference in that and having your own system set up for solar/battery and thus being off public electricity.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by geeksweep

because the ACA was unconstitutional too and the only reason it was passed was because its a "tax" and not a penalty - even though the plantiffs and defendants (the government) defined it as a penalty. In other words the Supreme Court redefined it from a penalty to a tax so that could rule in favor on the defendants.. mind blowing. So i look forward to the day where this ruling will be reversed or we get a complete dismantling of it in the current adminstration.

other than that why is it that people can have a well and septic and thus be off of public water and sewer. I dont see any difference in that and having your own system set up for solar/battery and thus being off public electricity.

People are usually only allowed to have well and septic where city utilities are not available. Once available, you have to hook up.

[SharpestJim]

Originally Posted by geeksweep

because the ACA was unconstitutional too and the only reason it was passed was because its a "tax" and not a penalty - even though the plantiffs and defendants (the government) defined it as a penalty. In other words the Supreme Court redefined it from a penalty to a tax so that could rule in favor on the defendants.. mind blowing. So i look forward to the day where this ruling will be reversed or we get a complete dismantling of it in the current adminstration.

other than that why is it that people can have a well and septic and thus be off of public water and sewer. I dont see any difference in that and having your own system set up for solar/battery and thus being off public electricity.

Believe me, I agree 100 percent. I was being snarky with my comment. But you are absolutely correct comparing electricity to water and sewer. Fantastic analogy.

Regarding the ACA...I, too, would like to see the entire thing repealed lock, stock & barrel. Unfortunately, it is looking less and less like this is going to happen. Politicians who talked tough on repeal to get elected/re-elected have "chickened out" since push has come to shove.

If you want to read some really good insights into what is truly wrong with our nation's healthcare system, look up Steven Weissman. He is an attorney and a former hospital administrator. Really bright guy. He correctly asserts that we do not really have health "insurance". He compares it to homeowners' or auto insurance. He draws this comparison: You have an auto accident, you don't just take your car to the repair shop and hand them your insurance card. You get an estimate. And another. And, probably, a third. Then you have your car repaired and THEN you submit it to your insurance company.

The other thing he talks about is market pricing or, more specifically, the lack thereof. A person can go in for a blood test and get charged $25. Another person can go to the same lab for the same test and get charged $500. The providers charge whatever they think they can get the insurance companies to pay. It truly is a fouled up system. I saw a clip of Mr Weismann the other day. He said, "Imagine if grocery stores operated the same way that healthcare facilities do. People would be outraged."

[MortonR]

It's not "illegal". Here's the deal:

If you are in a net metering contract with a utility, there is a requirement that if the utility goes offline, your solar array must go offline as well.

Why?

Because there is no protective relaying that would prevent it from back feeding power into the grid when the utility goes down. This not only puts their equipment at risk, it also creates a hazard for any lineman who might be working on the lines.

This is nothing new, it's not unusual in a net metering solar contract with a utility, blah, blah, blah.

However, there is an exception!

If you have an additional inverter and a battery supply, such as one of the big wall mounted Tesla batteries, you can run off your solar with the grid disconnected. With the addition of the batteries your system is isolated from the utility through the equipment, thereby preventing such an occurrence where power might be backed into the utility.

One of the ways the utilities kept consumers out of the solar or alternative energy business years ago was by requiring that anyone who wanted to connect to the grid had to provide utility grade protective relaying. This is extremely expensive equipment that prevented power being fed back into the grid by a secondary source, such as a solar array. A single utility grade protective relay can easily cost upwards of $10,000 and require highly qualified ($$$) people to install and maintain it.

Want to use your solar array when the utility goes down? Set up some batteries and an inverter and you're good. Most solar contractors offer such options, but they're not cheap or necessary, which is why most people opt out.

This is the typical media making a mountain out of a molehill. It's old, old news.

RM

[geeksweep]

Originally Posted by gypsychic

People are usually only allowed to have well and septic where city utilities are not available. Once available, you have to hook up.

there was some land here for sale to build homes on - in Pasco county where you could build a well without using public utilities.

[geeksweep]

Originally Posted by MortonR

It's not "illegal". Here's the deal:

If you are in a net metering contract with a utility, there is a requirement that if the utility goes offline, your solar array must go offline as well.

Why?

Because there is no protective relaying that would prevent it from back feeding power into the grid when the utility goes down. This not only puts their equipment at risk, it also creates a hazard for any lineman who might be working on the lines.

This is nothing new, it's not unusual in a net metering solar contract with a utility, blah, blah, blah.

However, there is an exception!

If you have an additional inverter and a battery supply, such as one of the big wall mounted Tesla batteries, you can run off your solar with the grid disconnected. With the addition of the batteries your system is isolated from the utility through the equipment, thereby preventing such an occurrence where power might be backed into the utility.

One of the ways the utilities kept consumers out of the solar or alternative energy business years ago was by requiring that anyone who wanted to connect to the grid had to provide utility grade protective relaying. This is extremely expensive equipment that prevented power being fed back into the grid by a secondary source, such as a solar array. A single utility grade protective relay can easily cost upwards of $10,000 and require highly qualified ($$$) people to install and maintain it.

Want to use your solar array when the utility goes down? Set up some batteries and an inverter and you're good. Most solar contractors offer such options, but they're not cheap or necessary, which is why most people opt out.

This is the typical media making a mountain out of a molehill. It's old, old news.

RM

so obviously if you are completed off the grid to begin with - then that part of it doesn't. I am trying to get a law or state code that says you can't do that. I can't find anything but you are saying its not illegal...