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The notion that teachers are underpaid and overworked has to come to an end. We have more teachers strikes every year in this area than any where else, with teachers constantly asking for more money. Every year we are looking at increased school taxes, and with some impoverished areas paying very high rates. I can name places and positions, but a librarian making $60k a year for sitting in a library and only working 190 days a year is sickening. (I dont care if they have masters degree.)
What is so bothersome is that I was driving to work and one of the DJs voiced they bumped into a teacher and was quick to comment that teachers have it so hard. This perception has to stop. Maybe in in the south, but ask any college student looking for a teaching position. They are hard to find here. No wonder look what they are making!!
Everyone in my family were and are teachers...and it was hell...low pay, and hard work. I wouldn't wish being a teacher on my worse enemy - in the american public school system.
That kind of incentive, according to that article...is alluring! I still wouldn't want to teach american kids though...(I actually teach, but abroad in a foreign country).
Usually it is MUCH MUCH lower...like late 20,000s it seems...and goes up to, don' know, 50,000 by the time you retire at the end of your 25 years?
I have a larger problem with the structural issues.
Primary and secondary school teachers do not need tenure, period -- let alone after just three years.
Let's remove the perverse effects that the PFT's political maneuvering has introduced into the compensation structure for the job.
Let's making teaching a job, not an entitlement, and assess teachers based on performance, pay them based on performance, and have the freedom to fire them.
Then let the salary chips fall where they may. If the median income for the 9-month job is still $75k, fine, if that's what it takes to attract a solid teaching core.
As a teacher, threads and sentiments like this make me never want to teach in the U.S. - not that I wanted to anyways. (Despite having a MA in Education and a ton of experience in teaching abroad).
PEople in the States honestly seriously hate teachers...with a passion. You can feel it every single time the subject of 'teaching', 'teachers' or 'education' comes up.
I guess I'm glad I got out of the States to teach...when I get back to the States, I quickly plan to find another trade
As a teacher, threads and sentiments like this make me never want to teach in the U.S. - not that I wanted to anyways. (Despite having a MA in Education and a ton of experience in teaching abroad).
PEople in the States honestly seriously hate teachers...with a passion. You can feel it every single time the subject of 'teaching', 'teachers' or 'education' comes up.
I guess I'm glad I got out of the States to teach...when I get back to the States, I quickly plan to find another trade
Yeah, it's always sad and disappointing to find out how people think you're worth nothing. Nobody ever complains what we pay pro athletes, doctors, entertainers, lawyers, etc. Teachers are worth nothing in the eyes of society.
If you love what you do, though...forget what they think and keep on doing it. People will always complain.
PEople in the States honestly seriously hate teachers...with a passion. You can feel it every single time the subject of 'teaching', 'teachers' or 'education' comes up.
This type of bullying used to shut people up, but it was over-played and no longer works. People are going to discuss the pay and performance of public employees charged with educating their children. If you want to histrionically translate that into "hate", go ahead, but it certainly doesn't reflect well on the rhetorical abilities of teachers.
Yeah, it's always sad and disappointing to find out how people think you're worth nothing. Nobody ever complains what we pay pro athletes, doctors, entertainers, lawyers, etc. Teachers are worth nothing in the eyes of society.
If you love what you do, though...forget what they think and keep on doing it. People will always complain.
Well, I'm over here in Japan...where education is valued...and teaching is fun.
I don't think I'd want to teach in the States. The culture is just anti-education there. I mean, you can see it and feel it on every level.
I've long thought...and this is fairly unusual, probably. But not everyone SHOULD spend 12 years in public education. Many quit learning well before their 12th year in the U.S. I'd love to see a system where education was wanted...and only those who wanted it, would attend school.
People who have no interest in school, should have the right to find something more productive with their time than sitting in school. Maybe start working earlier, or make it not such a horrible thing to NOT be high school educated if they aren't interested in it.
Why is this even being discussed again? It's been done to death...there's even an education forum for all of this back and forth mess that I'm sure will unfold...yet again..for the 100th time.
Not all teachers make $100K...not even close. Most teachers will have to sub for 3-10 years just to land a gig with a smaller district that yanks them around for 5 or so years before they'll even see the $40k mark, and most will max out after 15ish years in the $65-80k range(not that there's anythign wrong with that). The competition involved with high paying districts like your magical "$100k" district mentioned above can be insanely tough; the problem with people who are quick to throw teachers under the bus like this is that they have no understanding of the overall picture or how things can vary between districts let alone entire counties or states. It's possible to have a district that pays $45k start and $95k max after 10 years sitting 2 miles down the road from a district that pays $27k start with $68k max after 17 years...don't fall for generalizations and assume that everything that you read is always so cut and dry, especially when it concerns salaries.
And for tenure...yes, it allows a lot of crummy teachers to keep their jobs and sickens me in a lot of ways..but the difference between tenured states and non-tenured states is night and day. Non-tenured teaching states can seem more like indentured servitude with all of the ways that you can be taken advantage of, it just depends on the individual building and the district, where at least in a tenured state you have SOME sort of leverage when it comes to cutting the crap. Aside from just "keeping your job", tenure and unions help teachers balance out the overall pigheadedness that can stem from upper administrations that are completely business oriented and without a lick of understanding for what education is even about. Without that little bit of security and speaking power, you could be at the mercy of a bunch of hacks who would just blame the teachers and staff memebrs for their own mistakes. It's a necessary thing to have with all of the controversy and change that has/will be surrounding education during the next decade as reform and economic issues kick into high gear. We have to put up with a ton of crap in terms of 1) just finding a job in the most overcrowded field around, 2) gaining certification and maintaining that certification...it's a never ending cycle of requirements and continued course work, and 3) dealing with administration that wants to pile on more work while taking away from what we already have. I'm as point blank as anybody on these forums when it comes to telling it as I see it, and I honestly DO agree that PA teachers deserve the perks that they have compared to other states due to a variety of reasons. I'd have no problem saying otherwise if there wasn't such a truth behind it.
Education is truly something that can't be commented on correctly unless you've had a few years of involvement...people on the outside really have no possible way to understand and I'm not about to thrash away at the ill-informed, no matter how tempting that may be. Just run a search and you'll find this topic already played out and completed many times through, it's just a waste of time and energy.
Last edited by TelecasterBlues; 06-13-2010 at 10:59 AM..
Why is this even being discussed again? It's been done to death...
1) Not all teachers make $100K...not even close. Most teachers will have to sub for 3-10 years just to land a gig with a smaller district that yanks them around for 5 or so years before they'll even see the $40k mark, and most will max out after 15ish years in the $65-80k range. The competition involved with high paying districts can be insanely tough, the problem with people who are quick to throw teachers under the buss like this is that they have no understanding of the overall picture or how things can vary between districts let alone entire counties. It's possible to have a district that pays $45k start and $95k max after 10 years sitting 2 miles down the road from a district that pays $27k start with $68k max after 17 years...don't fall for generalizations and assume that everything that you read is always so cut and dry.
And for tenure...yes, it allows a lot of crummy teachers to keep their jobs and sickens me in a lot of ways..but the difference between tenured states and non-tenured states is night and day. Non-tenured teaching states can seem more like indentured servitude with all of the ways that you can be taken advantage of, it just depends on the individual building and the district, where at least in a tenured state you have SOME sort of leverage when it comes to cutting the crap. Aside from just "keeping your job", tenure and unions help teachers balance out the overall pigheadedness that can stem from upper administrations that are compeltely business oriented and without a lick of understanding for what education is even about. It's a necessary thing to have with all of the controversy and change that has/will be surrounding education during the next decade as reform and economic issues kick into high gear. We have to put up with a ton of crap in terms of 1) just finding a job in the most overcrowded field around, 2) gaining certification and maintaining that certification...it's a never ending cycle of requirements and continued course work, and 3) dealing with administration that wants to pile on more work while taking away what we already have.
Education is truly something that can't be commented on correctly unless you've had a few years of involvement...people on the outside really have no possible way to understand and I'm not going to thrash away at the ill-informed.
In my high school, teachers were lucky to teach a lesson plan once a week, and that was even in the PSP (Pittsburgh scholars program) courses. Not to mention all of those mainstream English classes I sat in from time to time, those were the worst. The teachers were literally reading out loud to a bunch of sleeping, disinterested kids.
What can you do though? Media and entertainment has dumbed down our society to such a level that American kids couldn't care less about learning, and in turn teachers couldn't care less about teaching. While I would agree that perhaps they are being overpaid due to poor job performance (at least in my experience), it's not exactly like the kids are making their lives any easier.
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