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No other profession does that. Like everyone else I've failed plenty of times at work. If I told my boss it was some customers fault he would laugh at me. And rightly so.
I think a principal would reply the same way. Like you said, teachers and administrators know what they are dealing with. I think most teachers are expected by their superiors to do the best they can with the resources they have and nothing less.
So, if a handful of kids are doing poorly, it couldn't possibly be their own fault, even though the majority of the kids are learning the material and doing well?
Wouldn't this be a bit like a physician who tells her patient exactly what he must to improve his health, but if the patient ignores the instructions, doesn't do his part to get well, it's somehow the fault of the doctor???
Yeah, my brother is a dentist in a area where the socio-economics of the community is not what you call upward suburban. He works hard, though, and does a very good job. He's a perfectionist and extremely driven (seriously, it's incredible) and believes that he should be well compensated for his work.
He also donates his time to Doctors With A Heart, serving the neediest in his community. Guess which demographic has more issues with dental maladies? Now, mind you, he is so good at his job that he does not enter into contracts with insurance companies to be paid at a contracted rate. He charges the prices that he sets and people pay the difference between what their insurance will pay and his price. Now, the more affluent clients struggle from time to time with dental issues, but guess which segment gives him the most "work" (emphasis because he doesn't actually get paid for it)? Now, he patiently counsels and educates each and every patient on how to properly take care of their teeth and what lifestyle changes they could make to prevent tooth decay and gum disease. He uses a variety of methods to demonstrate the long-term affects of not purchasing a toothbrush and toothpaste that will happen as a result of poor dental hygiene. Some of these patients will even come in in excruciating pain as a result of their poor dental hygiene even after he has repeatedly treated and counseled them at no cost to them. He will even give them free toothbrushes, toothpaste, and floss. Do they follow the instructions? No.
Now, imagine my brother being as stupidly altruistic as I am and only serving the neediest of the community (he, btw, warned me not to go into teaching). Despite his perfectionism, dedication, and drive has an overwhelming number of failures. It must be his fault. I mean, if he was really a good dentist, he would be able to inspire his patients to value their teeth.
I guess we should just rescind his license to practice and kick him to the curb. He is not showing results. Let's get some new graduates to replace him. They, after all, haven't grown stale like he has and are full of optimism, energy, and fresh ideas.
Like patients must cooperate with their health practitioners, education requires the cooperation of the learner.
Don't give me that "you teachers knew what you were getting into" BS. I didn't and my mother was a teacher. She never, ever had to deal with what I deal with.
Yeah, my brother is a dentist in a area where the socio-economics of the community is not what you call upward suburban. He works hard, though, and does a very good job. He's a perfectionist and extremely driven (seriously, it's incredible) and believes that he should be well compensated for his work.
He also donates his time to Doctors With A Heart, serving the neediest in his community. Guess which demographic has more issues with dental maladies? Now, mind you, he is so good at his job that he does not enter into contracts with insurance companies to be paid at a contracted rate. He charges the prices that he sets and people pay the difference between what their insurance will pay and his price. Now, the more affluent clients struggle from time to time with dental issues, but guess which segment gives him the most "work" (emphasis because he doesn't actually get paid for it)? Now, he patiently counsels and educates each and every patient on how to properly take care of their teeth and what lifestyle changes they could make to prevent tooth decay and gum disease. He uses a variety of methods to demonstrate the long-term affects of not purchasing a toothbrush and toothpaste that will happen as a result of poor dental hygiene. Some of these patients will even come in in excruciating pain as a result of their poor dental hygiene even after he has repeatedly treated and counseled them at no cost to them. He will even give them free toothbrushes, toothpaste, and floss. Do they follow the instructions? No.
Now, imagine my brother being as stupidly altruistic as I am and only serving the neediest of the community (he, btw, warned me not to go into teaching). Despite his perfectionism, dedication, and drive has an overwhelming number of failures. It must be his fault. I mean, if he was really a good dentist, he would be able to inspire his patients to value their teeth.
I guess we should just rescind his license to practice and kick him to the curb. He is not showing results. Let's get some new graduates to replace him. They, after all, haven't grown stale like he has and are full of optimism, energy, and fresh ideas.
Like patients must cooperate with their health practitioners, education requires the cooperation of the learner.
Don't give me that "you teachers knew what you were getting into" BS. I didn't and my mother was a teacher. She never, ever had to deal with what I deal with.
It amazes me that people do not get this. Teaching is my job. Learning is the student's job.
My view is that teachers understand what they are getting into as far as putting in hours "off the clock" and in most cases, it's their choice if they want to sponsor a club or sport in their extra time. I think they have a hard job but they are also public servants and they should be paid as such. When I was considering it, the base salary in Marion County (Florida) was high 20s with a bachelor's degree, plus benefits such as health insurance. That's not great but it's a county job. As experience and level of education increase, salary should as well. I don't think any teacher should make more than maybe $60k in a public school system. Principals, either.
I think there are a lot of teachers who are plain out just bad teachers, possibly in it for the wrong reasons or have been doing it too long so they're burnt out. There are just as many, probably more, who are awesome teachers. I agree most are in the middle somewhere. My high school in Florida (read: no unions) was supposedly awesome but I still had a couple issues with teachers, so it can happen anywhere and I shudder to think what might go on in an area dominated by unions and/or more liberal and/or with a lot of poor kids.
A major reason there are problems with education is due to extraneous factors such as school boards, union pull, political plays at a higher level as to what curriculum to teach, that kind of thing. Teaching for a test such as the FCAT is an issue as well. Funding is an issue but only b/c it was made one as far as not using the money properly. I hate when people say money is the problem and why schools fail. You can throw a ton of money at a school but unless the curriculum is right, the teachers are right and the parents and students are working hard at it, the school and students can still fail. Parents are a huge part of the problem and I think most teachers do a fine job at teaching what they are told to teach so it's not necessarily their fault. Poverty and peer pressure as far as inner city schools are a huge influence. Milwaukee Public Schools has something like a 30% dropout rate. That should be intolerable. There are a lot of factors that go into why students do poorly and/or are not prepared for college or real life upon graduation. Taking God out of schools, being too PC and catering to this new lazy and entitled mentality are all parts of the problem, too.
All of that said, I personally do not want my children in a public school system and we will be homeschooling.
Just to be fair, I'm only referring to high school. And most teachers I know work a 10 to 12 hour day at least. Others work more depending on whether they are single, married, or have kids, etc. Think about after-school tutorials, sponsoring clubs and organizations, coaching, school events, parent/teacher conferences, faculty meetings, subject area meetings, etc. Do you think most teachers download their lesson plans? What about grading papers on the weekends? And if you teach at a bad school, what about calling parents, issuing deficiency plans, and creating differentiated assignments and activities, etc.
Not trying to belittle your response because that is what I asked for, and I'm sure a few teachers are real slackers, but I'm not sure if you know what all goes on behind the scenes... Do you think you could effectively engage, manage, and teach 90 to 175 teenagers (5 classes at 35 students per class) that all don't necessarily want to be there? Just food for thought...
I'm not going to slam teachers or say that they don't work hard or any of that. My spouse is headed for a career in teaching and I myself am considering a Master's in Special Education. I think we really need to value good teachers. However, and I realize I am just chiming in with an anecdote here, I did want to say that I have public school teacher friends, people I have known for over a decade and in some cases longer, and 3 out of the 4 that I am close to teach high school. None of them works a 10 to 12 hour day.
Maybe it's the subjects they teach? Maybe it's extra stuff that they don't volunteer to do? All of them have kids of their own, and two are single parents, but yeah, they all work a pretty standard length day and have as much free time as any other working person I know.
And every teacher knows what they are getting into. And if they don't like it they can find employment elsewhere. Aint no one forcing them to teach.
Every job has it's difficulties. Most people don't run around telling everyone how difficult their profession is while blaming their customers for their failures.
But teachers think they are special. lols.
Let's suppose you are in a business that manufactures something, let's say something simple like hammers.
You receive a batch of wood that is to be used for the handles, but.. you are not allowed to test and reject any of this wood. You must use every piece. Some of the wood has knotholes and stress points. Some of the wood is ash, some is oak, some is bamboo, some is cherry, some is pine, some is elm, etc. Would you use every piece for handles? Would you suggest that some woods be used for different purposes and be rejected for the hammer manufacturing process?
What do you think would happen in terms of the numbers of hammers that had defective handles that would break the first or second time the customer used them if you had to use the ash or bamboo for those handles?
Would you blame yourself for the failure of these hammers? Or would you suggest that your boss allow you to reject the faulty wood so that the hammers could all have handles that did not break?
I'm not going to slam teachers or say that they don't work hard or any of that. My spouse is headed for a career in teaching and I myself am considering a Master's in Special Education. I think we really need to value good teachers. However, and I realize I am just chiming in with an anecdote here, I did want to say that I have public school teacher friends, people I have known for over a decade and in some cases longer, and 3 out of the 4 that I am close to teach high school. None of them works a 10 to 12 hour day.
Maybe it's the subjects they teach? Maybe it's extra stuff that they don't volunteer to do? All of them have kids of their own, and two are single parents, but yeah, they all work a pretty standard length day and have as much free time as any other working person I know.
So these teachers don't grade papers? Do you know what they do when they go home?
Let's suppose you are in a business that manufactures something, let's say something simple like hammers.
You receive a batch of wood that is to be used for the handles, but.. you are not allowed to test and reject any of this wood. You must use every piece. Some of the wood has knotholes and stress points. Some of the wood is ash, some is oak, some is bamboo, some is cherry, some is pine, some is elm, etc. Would you use every piece for handles? Would you suggest that some woods be used for different purposes and be rejected for the hammer manufacturing process?
What do you think would happen in terms of the numbers of hammers that had defective handles that would break the first or second time the customer used them if you had to use the ash or bamboo for those handles?
Would you blame yourself for the failure of these hammers? Or would you suggest that your boss allow you to reject the faulty wood so that the hammers could all have handles that did not break?
Just so some nitwit doesn't decide to exploit the fact that you said "reject" and "defective" in the context of hammer production and then turn it into a blanket statement about how you view students, you are not suggesting that some students are defective and should be rejected, right?
I also get tired of everytime a teacher fails to do their job they blame the customers. (parents and taxpayers) Instead of taking responsiblity for their own failures.
No other profession does that.
You have never dealt with the technical services or software services industries. It is always the customer's fault there. Now that I think about it... financial services, insurance services, health care services, entertainment services, really virtually every tertiary industry other than hospitality, advertising, and marketing (and even those level plenty of blame on customers' choices), the customer gets the blame rather than the service provider.
Heck, call up your ISP today and tell them you have poor connections speeds. See how long you have to be on the call before they even suggest that it could be their fault and not totally your fault (and I guarantee they will charge you a fee just to make the determination of whether or not it is their fault).
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