Are There Many Teachers Who Shouldn't Be? (graders, homework, paying)
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This is what a lot of the casual teacher bashers don't understand, or choose not to. It's very easy to offer solutions which will never fly in real life.
Yep. I hear a lot of "Well, I'd just kick them out of class, if they can't act right! Problem solved! Har har!"
Hey, great. Never thought of that. Oh, wait. Not allowed to do that.
Classroom management skills are not really taught in college.
As I near retirement I've come to the conclusion I should've been a cowboy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
I was thinking more along the lines of schools and districts that limit the consequences that can be meted out. Problematic behavior cannot be properly addressed if there are never meaningful consequences to actions (or if there are no meaningful reinforcements for positive behavior), because the school doesn't allow it. If, as a teacher, I cannot enforce or reinforce classroom rules in any meaningful way, my ability to maintain control has been severely compromised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
Today, if you have a child removed from the classroom for disciplinary action, it reflects badly on the teacher. It means the teacher has poor management. The teacher gets punished, not the student. The other students in the class don't blink and they will continue their bad behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
Fairly often, now, the official word from administration is "Do NOT send students to the office." Teachers are expected to handle disciplinary issues on their own, but typically with their hands tied regarding what they may actually enforce. So, rules become meaningless, because there are no meaningful consequences.
Agree that if the administration has no back bone (as well as being unsupportive) the repeat offenders
defeated the enemy and then get an unlimited free pass.
Most classroom management courses were designed for elementary level and were taught by professors who
haven't been in a classroom for 20 years.
Agree that if the administration has no back bone (as well as being unsupportive) the repeat offenders
defeated the enemy and then get an unlimited free pass.
Most classroom management courses were designed for elementary level and were taught by professors who haven't been in a classroom for 20 years.
Some of these behavior problem kids want to get suspended.
They want days off from school so they can stay home.
Then they come back and brag about what they did those 2 days (mostly wander the neighborhoods).
There's very few responsible parents behind these chronic disrupters..very few.
A school is a reflection of it's community, NOT only its teachers.
Last edited by HappyTexan; 06-18-2014 at 09:02 AM..
I was thinking more along the lines of schools and districts that limit the consequences that can be meted out. Problematic behavior cannot be properly addressed if there are never meaningful consequences to actions (or if there are no meaningful reinforcements for positive behavior), because the school doesn't allow it. If, as a teacher, I cannot enforce or reinforce classroom rules in any meaningful way, my ability to maintain control has been severely compromised.
Consequences don't necessarily change behavior either. Many students are unaffected by ISS and OSS. Some schools give conduct and citizenship grades, which impact participation in extra-curricular activities yet that only has limited value in most cases as apathy often trumps the plan. Managing students who are unaffected by consequences is very difficult. A different learning environment may be the only solution yet cost and availability is a real constraint.
What has been a major shift in the past decade is the number of students who see achieving a passing grade (60 or 65%) as doing well. They lack any passion or interest in anything in or outside of the classroom related to learning. They spend much of their time watching tv, listening to music, partying or sleeping. They don't participate in sports, have hobbies, walk in the woods, ride bikes, or go to the library. It's not just a matter of money. May teachers continue to work hard to open their eyes and try to expand their horizons but the message is largely not accepted. Many field trips have reduced or eliminated due to lack of interest by the students. Formerly popular trips to places like the Bronx Zoo, Boston Science Center, NYC Museum of Natural History are now often viewed as boring. Many students would prefer a trip to an amusement park.
Last edited by Lincolnian; 06-20-2014 at 04:17 AM..
Here's the thing, though...I spent most of the past five years in a behavioral school, for studens with psych/emotional issues and developmental disabilities whose aggressive and dangerous behavior made public school attendance impossible. Due to that experience, I am well-versed on handling behavior (including effective reinforcement/consequences). It actually works quite well, it simply requires more supports (and more specifically trained instructors) than are available in the typical public school setting.
Here's the thing, though...I spent most of the past five years in a behavioral school, for studens with psych/emotional issues and developmental disabilities whose aggressive and dangerous behavior made public school attendance impossible. Due to that experience, I am well-versed on handling behavior (including effective reinforcement/consequences). It actually works quite well, it simply requires more supports (and more specifically trained instructors) than are available in the typical public school setting.
And a smaller student:teacher ratio to be able to consistently implement it.
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And a smaller student:teacher ratio to be able to consistently implement it.
That seems to make a huge difference with some of these kids.
I do a lot of tutoring/remedial work and a class of 6-10 is so much more manageable than a class of 28-30.
I've seen the same students in a remedial class behave totally different in their regular class.
I had a group of 8 for remedial Math this past school year for about 4 months.
For the first 5 minutes of each class we did "social talk" about what was going on in their lives outside of school and then got down to business.
It really seemed to make a difference in how the students behaved not only for me but between themselves.
I could address each student's problems. And I was able to observe their work and assess their skills because I had more time to spend with each student and watch them work.
Are there many in the clergy who shouldn't be ministering? Probably.
In every career there are always some who shouldn't be. But the question is what would disqualify someone from being part of that profession?
I know doctors who can't spell. I know engineers that can't multiply. If we were to "judge" someone's acceptance into a profession based on personality, Harrison Ford would have NEVER made a movie. Have you ever seen him in an one-on-one interview? He is the most BORING guy on earth. BUT when he gets in front of a camera and takes on a role he is one of the best.
I think sometimes we get caught up in looking for ways to tell people NO and not looking at what they are capable of doing out side the paradigms we have constructed.
We need to start evaluating people based on what they CAN DO and not on what they cannot do.
And a smaller student:teacher ratio to be able to consistently implement it.
Yep, the ratio is definitely at the top of the list in terms of necessary supports.
A smaller ratio is enormously helpful when working with typically developing students with minimal behavioral concerns at a variety of grade levels, as well, not just with students with special needs and/or behavioral issues. The ability to more effectively individualize your instruction usually translates into an ability to more thoroughly teach, reach more students where they are, and increased opportunities for better learning experiences. It's difficult for most people to do as good of a job teaching to a herd as they would if they were able to concentrate their attentions on smaller groups of students.
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Agree that if the administration has no back bone (as well as being unsupportive) the repeat offenders
