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Old 05-15-2016, 04:56 PM
 
3,070 posts, read 5,234,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
What some of you are missing is that memorizing the times tables is considered bad practice now. You may not like it but that's the new reality.
No disagreement here, but if OP is an aide (sub?), it simply isn't within their scope of practice to make judgement about it.

Scope of practice can vary, but while being employed as an aide, I can't change/determine programming for my ELL students - even though I have higher ESL qualifications than the teacher. I can recommend and offer advice, but they can say no. It's a big division, but it helps protect teacher's jobs (salaries) as well as student protection (a lot of aides have little or no teacher training).
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:04 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,435 posts, read 60,638,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
No disagreement here, but if OP is an aide (sub?), it simply isn't within their scope of practice to make judgement about it.

Scope of practice can vary, but while being employed as an aide, I can't change/determine programming for my ELL students - even though I have higher ESL qualifications than the teacher. I can recommend and offer advice, but they can say no. It's a big division, but it helps protect teacher's jobs (salaries) as well as student protection (a lot of aides have little or no teacher training).

I'm more concerned that he's not being told what accommodations are necessary. I'll agree that seeing the IEP isn't likely necessary but if he's full time he does need those accomodations.


A sub? Not so much.
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:20 PM
 
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OP was a sub two weeks ago so I would be surprised if anything has changed.
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:37 PM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,606,279 times
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Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Makes it really difficult to do algebra....
Fractions and long division are challenging as well. I still have all of my students memorize them.
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Makes it really difficult to do algebra....
You're tellin' me! We have just been working on factoring trinomials for several weeks. Can't tell you how many times a kid stopped me as I walk around the room during classwork to say there "was no answer" to a certain problem. (Background: if you don't know anything about factoring trinomials, you are looking for a specific set of numbers that multiply to one number but add up to a different one. Example: +4 and +5 mutliply to +20 but add up to +9, etc.) One day they were looking for factors of 24 -- they had listed them all except 4 times 6, which of course if the one they needed. I said, "How about 4 and 6?" and their eyes get big and they go "Oh yeah!!!" and then keep working.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:18 PM
 
280 posts, read 422,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
No disagreement here, but if OP is an aide (sub?), it simply isn't within their scope of practice to make judgement about it.

Scope of practice can vary, but while being employed as an aide, I can't change/determine programming for my ELL students - even though I have higher ESL qualifications than the teacher. I can recommend and offer advice, but they can say no. It's a big division, but it helps protect teacher's jobs (salaries) as well as student protection (a lot of aides have little or no teacher training).
Yes, I am still a sub and hoping to get a permanent job next year. I would never comment to a teacher about her practices, I was polling an anonymous internet forum about how members feel about the usage of times table sheets. Somehow it got into this big discussion about whether or not I can see IEPs or not. I just wanted to hear "Yes I'm for it or no I'm not, and perhaps some reasons for either side."
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:53 PM
 
280 posts, read 422,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrknowitall526 View Post
You're tellin' me! We have just been working on factoring trinomials for several weeks. Can't tell you how many times a kid stopped me as I walk around the room during classwork to say there "was no answer" to a certain problem. (Background: if you don't know anything about factoring trinomials, you are looking for a specific set of numbers that multiply to one number but add up to a different one. Example: +4 and +5 mutliply to +20 but add up to +9, etc.) One day they were looking for factors of 24 -- they had listed them all except 4 times 6, which of course if the one they needed. I said, "How about 4 and 6?" and their eyes get big and they go "Oh yeah!!!" and then keep working.
Having to use a times table chart significantly slows down the math process so that when kiddos are doing let's say 323 x 452 and they have to check the chart for each multiplication it becomes an exercise in frustration. My child is high functioning autistic and she learned her times tables 0-12 by the end of 3rd grade, her teacher made the class.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:44 AM
 
3,070 posts, read 5,234,886 times
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Originally Posted by Tristan_Davis View Post
Yes, I am still a sub and hoping to get a permanent job next year. I would never comment to a teacher about her practices, I was polling an anonymous internet forum about how members feel about the usage of times table sheets. Somehow it got into this big discussion about whether or not I can see IEPs or not. I just wanted to hear "Yes I'm for it or no I'm not, and perhaps some reasons for either side."
There's nothing wrong with your question IEPs are a bit of an obsessive topic for those of us in SPED.
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Old 05-16-2016, 03:33 PM
 
331 posts, read 370,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan_Davis View Post
Having to use a times table chart significantly slows down the math process so that when kiddos are doing let's say 323 x 452 and they have to check the chart for each multiplication it becomes an exercise in frustration. My child is high functioning autistic and she learned her times tables 0-12 by the end of 3rd grade, her teacher made the class.
And my opinion is, doing 323 x 452 is a waste of time to do by hand. By the time students get to me (high school), and if they haven't learned basic skills, they are not going to. I don't have time to re-teach basic skills that should have been addressed in elementary school. So, we come up with ways to get them around the skills they don't know.

And, in my class, something like 323 x 452 would never come up, because I don't give such ridiculous numbers in in Algebra 1. For the most part, I used numbers that can be easily done mentally, and if not, quick to jot down on paper. But, I am flexible -- if someone needs a calculator to do -7 + 10, I let them -- I am there to teach algebra skills, not basic arithmetic facts. They need to find ways to cope with the skills they don't know, so they can be successful in higher math courses.

Also, as an adult in real life, sure, 323 x 452 might come up in financial things, etc., but I'll be honest - even I would not do that by hand! A waste of time and too many places for errors.

Using a times table chart is especially useful for finding LCDs to add or subtract fractions -- I have subbed in a learning support high school math class where students used one for this purpose and were successful.
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:44 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,747 posts, read 26,841,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrknowitall526 View Post
as an adult in real life, sure, 323 x 452 might come up in financial things, etc., but I'll be honest - even I would not do that by hand! A waste of time and too many places for errors.

Using a times table chart is especially useful for finding LCDs to add or subtract fractions -- I have subbed in a learning support high school math class where students used one for this purpose and were successful.
So what happens when students take state tests that do not allow any cheat sheets or calculators?
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