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Let me ask a different question...as a retired principal:
How exactly do you suspend a student who is already at home?
How do you prevent them from participating in extra-curricular activities when there are none?
How do you prevent them from being on school property, when no students are on school property?
Maybe my state was different, but when we suspended a student, the student still had to be provided with supposedly comparable work to do while out of school.
Admittedly, I'm probably missing something here.
That's a good observation. Yours and my common system are locking a kid on suspension out of the Zoom class meetings and the teachers are emailing the makeup work/students are accessing through the Google Docs classroom site.
Let me ask a different question...as a retired principal:
How exactly do you suspend a student who is already at home?
How do you prevent them from participating in extra-curricular activities when there are none?
How do you prevent them from being on school property, when no students are on school property?
Maybe my state was different, but when we suspended a student, the student still had to be provided with supposedly comparable work to do while out of school.
Admittedly, I'm probably missing something here.
When I was in school and I've been a parent of school age kids for around 15 years and it hasn't changed, all days missed due to suspension are unexcused and all assignments missed on those days are an automatic zero. I suspect this carries less weight with NCLB and kids aren't actually allowed to fail. For a student that is trying to academically succeed it probably carries some weight and through "No pass, No play" probably carries more weight since they are allowed to be failing at midterms and loose eligibility.
I grew up in Florida and currently live in Texas and COVID 19 isn't stopping high school football or what goes along with it in either area. Students that are doing remote instruction come to their campus for extra-curricular activities here as of this fall.
Let me ask a different question...as a retired principal:
How exactly do you suspend a student who is already at home?
How do you prevent them from participating in extra-curricular activities when there are none?
How do you prevent them from being on school property, when no students are on school property?
Maybe my state was different, but when we suspended a student, the student still had to be provided with supposedly comparable work to do while out of school.
Admittedly, I'm probably missing something here.
You are missing the fact that this is an unprecedented time in history.
6 months ago if you told anyone that a middle schooler would be taking classes via ZOOM in his home, people would think you were crazy. Immediately switching the learning platform from in-person to zoom in a matter of months in one of the most stressful events we've faced in our lifetime with no real training for teachers, is bound to produce many hiccups.
The questions you asked have never been encountered before. Schools will adapt and figure them out. Maybe the suspension just appears on the child's official record with no tangible penalties? Maybe the suspension is retroactive and will be served when in-person school resumes?
And I'm not speaking about this story in particular (not saying this kid should be suspended). Just saying in-general schools should be cut a little slack for some of the hiccups they are dealing with during these unprecedented times.
I think this is an unprecedented situation and all the instances I've read about of "guns" in a Zoom shot have sounded fairly innocuous--accidental. I haven't read a case where the kid picked up the BB gun, pointed it at the teacher over Zoom and was purposefully acting out.
I have a really hard time with the school coming down on kids for stuff in their bedroom. I understand why something that looks like a gun in the camera frame is disruptive. So maybe the first reaction needs to be a warning sent home to the parents reminding them that they shouldn't have this item visible in the Zoom shot during school time. Then if it happens again, okay, it's not an accident. But these cases of sending the police or suspending kids for having a nerf gun in their own bedroom feel inappropriate to me.
I think this is an unprecedented situation and all the instances I've read about of "guns" in a Zoom shot have sounded fairly innocuous--accidental. I haven't read a case where the kid picked up the BB gun, pointed it at the teacher over Zoom and was purposefully acting out.
I have a really hard time with the school coming down on kids for stuff in their bedroom. I understand why something that looks like a gun in the camera frame is disruptive. So maybe the first reaction needs to be a warning sent home to the parents reminding them that they shouldn't have this item visible in the Zoom shot during school time. Then if it happens again, okay, it's not an accident. But these cases of sending the police or suspending kids for having a nerf gun in their own bedroom feel inappropriate to me.
I agree. This seems like the most logical approach. Assuming the kid isn't shooting a gun (which could look real even if it's fake), then it seems like the issue should be more about "distracting backgrounds" rather than a need to call the police. I haven't followed the story closely, so given the unprecedented times and this being new, I wouldn't fault a teacher for reporting seeing guns to a higher-up/administrator. It was probably an instinctual teacher reaction.
But the administrator/higher up should probably realize that just the presence of guns in the house does not warrant calling the police (since they are likely legal).
When I was in school and I've been a parent of school age kids for around 15 years and it hasn't changed, all days missed due to suspension are unexcused and all assignments missed on those days are an automatic zero. I suspect this carries less weight with NCLB and kids aren't actually allowed to fail. For a student that is trying to academically succeed it probably carries some weight and through "No pass, No play" probably carries more weight since they are allowed to be failing at midterms and loose eligibility.
I grew up in Florida and currently live in Texas and COVID 19 isn't stopping high school football or what goes along with it in either area. Students that are doing remote instruction come to their campus for extra-curricular activities here as of this fall.
First of all, in most schools kids are still allowed to fail.
Second, maybe that's the way it was done where you were, but in every system I worked in, school work was provided for students who were suspended. Of course it was never comparable, but it at least made an effort, and the only F's or zeroes that were given were if the suspended student didn't complete the alternate work. I'm not a lawyer, but that was based on the concept -- which is debatable -- that education is a property right.
You are missing the fact that this is an unprecedented time in history.
6 months ago if you told anyone that a middle schooler would be taking classes via ZOOM in his home, people would think you were crazy. Immediately switching the learning platform from in-person to zoom in a matter of months in one of the most stressful events we've faced in our lifetime with no real training for teachers, is bound to produce many hiccups.
The questions you asked have never been encountered before. Schools will adapt and figure them out. Maybe the suspension just appears on the child's official record with no tangible penalties? Maybe the suspension is retroactive and will be served when in-person school resumes?
And I'm not speaking about this story in particular (not saying this kid should be suspended). Just saying in-general schools should be cut a little slack for some of the hiccups they are dealing with during these unprecedented times.
I think that's very good advice.
It seems as if there's a bit of shoot from the hip mentality going on here (pun intended).
I wonder, for example, if a teacher teaching from home who had a hunting rifle hung on the wall behind his desk would be fired.
Now if you think that's silly, I remember a time when the principal of my school said she was going to have to suspend Mario for wearing gang colors. And I, as vice principal, suggested she take a walk with me to Mrs. Ptomaine-Poisoning's history classroom. There was the teacher wearing exactly the same kerchief that our principal said was a gang symbol when warn by Mario. "Are you gonna fire her?", I asked.
I'll tell you what one of my common-sense policies was as a principal -- LDA. What was the least drastic action I could take to solve an issue. Unfortunately, some administrators use the MDA policy -- what is the most drastic action they can take to solve an issue.
First of all, in most schools kids are still allowed to fail.
Second, maybe that's the way it was done where you were, but in every system I worked in, school work was provided for students who were suspended. Of course it was never comparable, but it at least made an effort, and the only F's or zeroes that were given were if the suspended student didn't complete the alternate work. I'm not a lawyer, but that was based on the concept -- which is debatable -- that education is a property right.
Oh? Texas has schools?
Between your response to my post and your retelling of the gang color story (which still sounds like it took place back in the 90's when I was a teenager every time I've read it), I think you're a bit out of touch in some areas. I have a lot of family in both school districts you were employed by, many that were graduates and/or former employees and some that are current students or empolyees.
You had wrote that students aren't allowed on campus and can't participate in extra-curricula activities in a remote learning environment. My point in bringing up that high school football has started back up here is that students learning remotely are coming to campus for football, student P/T trainer, equipment managing, cheerleading, band, color guard, ROTC, pep squad, choir, drill team (which is mostly unique to Texas), student council and most likely a host of other extra-curricula activities. Therefore if anyone of them got suspended for having an unloaded shotgun mounted on a wall of their house, they wouldn't be allowed to come to campus to participate in said activity. Based on your response feigning unawareness that Texas has schools, I'm guessing you came to a different conclusion.
Last edited by wildflower_FL; 10-07-2020 at 06:06 PM..
Reason: left off cheerleading
State legislators of both political parties and the state’s Attorney General are stepping up in the student’s defense.
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