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My current pay is my permanent pay. And nurses start here closer to $50K (I have a friend who just becamse a nurse) so it's only a slight exaggeration. A nurse makes half again what I make only the nurse has the potential to make double what I make. I don't. You have to get into a district to make a decent wage teaching but those jobs are drying up. What's available are low paying charters or even lower paying private schools.
What is "closer" to $50K? $48K, what? Even assuming for a minute that all the extra time you put in puts you at about 80% time, rather than 75% time, if the nurse is making $48K, that is the equivalent of $38,400. I don't know how that compares to your actual pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard
Ivorytickler wrote:
I've demonstrated I'm above many out there.
This statement expresses nothing more than arrogance!
Honestly, it has very little to do with actual value. The U.S. is a capitalist nation and its economy is based upon capitalist principles. Therefore, a person is paid according to the capital that he or she (or the company that he or she works for) generates.
Unfortuantely, public school education does not generate a lot of capital; it consumes capital in the form of taxes. Hence, lower pay for [public school] teachers. But even private schools, which are technically businesses that generate capital and income, notoriously pay teachers even less--I imagine because of fluctuations in enrollment, maintenance costs and other factors. I also think that it has something to do with the fact that education is not a tangible product and that it just costs so much to educate people because of economies-of-scale. There is so much variability with regard to how a student will effectively learn that the most effective education tends to be closer to specialized, one-on-one instruction, which makes it an inherently inefficient business-model and, therefore, very expensive and unable to pay teachers higher salaries.
You can say this 100% of the time and it will be ignored 80% of the time by people in education. You are discussing reality and we want the fantasy that if we complain enough we will one day become highly paid as the fairy tale prince drops money tax free on our school districts.
Certainly we all have the RIGHT to complain. I have no desire to take that RIGHT away from anyone. My point about complaining is that it is a waste of energy that leads to an eventual state of depression.
If you take the time to think it thru, you will realize that complaining is just a distraction. It keeps the complainer from taking effective action or changing the resentful attitude causing the distress. Complaining feels good in the moment ( God knows I've done enough of it myself! ), but the good feeling wears off very quickly. Now on top of the original distress, a layer of frustration is added and you actually feel worse. It's a never ending spiral of distress & frustration that leads to a feeling of powerlessness and eventually a state of depression over time.
To understand the futility of complaining, ask yourself questions like the ones to follow:
How much complaining do I have to do to get a higher salary? How much compalining do I have to do to get more respect from the public? How much complaining do I have to do to get supplies paid for by the district? How much complaining do I have to do to get breaktime with another adult?
Silly questions they are, but they clearly show the disconnect between complaining and getting what you want.
Correct, they value what I do at a low compensation. What you are willing to pay for something shows how much you value it.
I can make more money working behind the counter in one of the stores my husband works for. Is a teacher not worth more than a small loans officer? I can make more as a manager at a retail store. I can make more as a manager at a McDonalds. I can make three times more as an engineer. Why am I worth only 1/3 as a teacher of what I'm worth as an engineer?
I make about 1/2 of what a nurse makes here. I make 1/3 of what an engineer makes here. I make about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a mechanic makes. I make less money than a line worker in an auto plant and don't have anywhere near their benefits. Why is a teacher worth this much less? Is not attaining and retaining good teachers worth something to society?
I'm frustrated because I wanted to teach and thought I had something to offer. Not being able to afford to put my own kids through college if I stay is the show stopper. My kids don't deserve to not go to college because I'm teaching your kids. Sorry, but my family comes first so the kids and parents who want me to teach college courses in high school and work as the group leader for science based competitions will just have to find another teacher. Fortunately, I hear they're cheap.
Well then go ahead and quit and call this press conference off. How many times are you going to say you are going to do it and keep showing up for work and taking courses? You must be a lot of fun in the teachers lounge, faculty meetings and oh yeah Happy Hour!
Ivorytickler I like your sprit and agree with much of what you say. And I understand how frustrated and brought down you feel, the first year of teaching is like a huge fat slap in the face. Reality is sinking in and you are fighting it. I know you are outraged and you don't want to let go of how the teaching profession should be many go through this. Try not to get so wrapped up in how it should be and focus on what you can do to make yourself happier. Don't focus on how the state or "they" lied to you or the time and effort you put in this job. You sound like a very smart person. If you have accomplished a engineering degree and now have become a teacher you are very capable of taking charge of your next move. It appears to me that you have to decided to stick in there longer and see if things get better, that’s good but try to think of it as a temporary spot that will lead you to something better. You need to try and find a public school to work for if you still feel that you want to teach so that you can have a higher income. And I’m not sure I understand completely but it sounds like your said you have a single subject degree and that is limiting you to getting a job in the public sector. Well if you decide you still want to teach after this next year and that is holding you back, then you can go back for a multiple subject credential. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but you need to be thinking in terms of how you are going to move forward into a position that makes you happy and pays the bills. If this next year proves to be as frustrating at this first and it will be a little easier but many of the things you complain about will be the same then you need to make a decision, where to apply next whether it be teacher at another school or in a new career. I know you feel defeated but know that many people feel this way, and you are not alone. Ultimately as many other have stated complaining over and over again just make it worse. Trust me I have been doing it for three years, looking at teachers blogs who complain about teaching and getting anxiety every Sunday because I just don’t want to deal with it on Monday. The month before summer ends I get depressed and can’t imagine doing it. But I made my choice and have my goal of working 5 years and then moving on in a business industry and it is very scary, I DO NOT want to start all over again, but once I do I will be happier for it. So you need to decide what plan of action you are going to take and try not to focus on how it should be and how it’s not fair it will only hurt your mental state. Good luck to you and I hope you find happiness.
What is "closer" to $50K? $48K, what? Even assuming for a minute that all the extra time you put in puts you at about 80% time, rather than 75% time, if the nurse is making $48K, that is the equivalent of $38,400. I don't know how that compares to your actual pay.
I owe you some rep, when I can!
I only know what a friend started at and that was very close to $50K for a full time nursing position with a masters degree in nursing (no specialty, just a hospital nursing job). I have a masters in engineering and a masters in education. My pay is 68% of hers. That puts her at half again what I make. I'm not sure what you're referring to wiht 80% time or 75% time. I work more than 100% time compared to someone who has a 40 hour a week job year round. I've posted before that I work more hours now than I did as an engineer. I knew I would going in. I just work the bulk of them during the school year. Summers are much lighter.
I work about 60 hours a week during the school year. More when there are parent teacher conferences, open houses or grades are due. A person who works 40 hours a week 50 weeks of the year works 2000 hours (assuming no holidays off just two weeks vacation). I'd have to average 51.3 hours per week the 39 weeks of my school year to equal 2000 hours if I worked nothing the 13 weeks I'm "off" and I do that easily. While teachers may be off 1/4 of the school year, we have a job and a half when we're on. There is no 80% or 75%. It's 110%.
I assume as the years pass, I'd get more efficient but I'm not sure how much so. One of the teachers who has been doing this for decades is still there every night when I leave and I stay late. I know he doesn't take work home with him though. When he leaves, he's done. I know he puts in, at least, 50 hours a week during the school year. He probably doesn't spend his summer on lesson plans since he's been teaching the same subject for years. My schedule was insane last year but it was my first year. It will be insane again this year with a new prep and having to rewrite everything I did last year (believe it or not, I did not get it all right the first time, go figure, .)
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-05-2009 at 05:40 AM..
Ivorytickler I like your sprit and agree with much of what you say. And I understand how frustrated and brought down you feel, the first year of teaching is like a huge fat slap in the face. Reality is sinking in and you are fighting it. I know you are outraged and you don't want to let go of how the teaching profession should be many go through this. Try not to get so wrapped up in how it should be and focus on what you can do to make yourself happier. Don't focus on how the state or "they" lied to you or the time and effort you put in this job. You sound like a very smart person. If you have accomplished a engineering degree and now have become a teacher you are very capable of taking charge of your next move. It appears to me that you have to decided to stick in there longer and see if things get better, that’s good but try to think of it as a temporary spot that will lead you to something better. You need to try and find a public school to work for if you still feel that you want to teach so that you can have a higher income. And I’m not sure I understand completely but it sounds like your said you have a single subject degree and that is limiting you to getting a job in the public sector. Well if you decide you still want to teach after this next year and that is holding you back, then you can go back for a multiple subject credential. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but you need to be thinking in terms of how you are going to move forward into a position that makes you happy and pays the bills. If this next year proves to be as frustrating at this first and it will be a little easier but many of the things you complain about will be the same then you need to make a decision, where to apply next whether it be teacher at another school or in a new career. I know you feel defeated but know that many people feel this way, and you are not alone. Ultimately as many other have stated complaining over and over again just make it worse. Trust me I have been doing it for three years, looking at teachers blogs who complain about teaching and getting anxiety every Sunday because I just don’t want to deal with it on Monday. The month before summer ends I get depressed and can’t imagine doing it. But I made my choice and have my goal of working 5 years and then moving on in a business industry and it is very scary, I DO NOT want to start all over again, but once I do I will be happier for it. So you need to decide what plan of action you are going to take and try not to focus on how it should be and how it’s not fair it will only hurt your mental state. Good luck to you and I hope you find happiness.
Thanks for the pep talk.
Actually I have two single subject certs and one general. I'm certified for chemistry, physics and math. My math cert is general for grades 6-12. Unfortunately, a general science cert requires 12 hours of chemistry and/or physics, 12 earth science and 12 life science. I have zero earth and life science. The over 100 I have in chemistry and physics doesn't help. Sadly, I'm what the state says they want. They don't like that people with as few as zero credits are teaching subjects like chemistry under a general science cert but schools want that flexibility. They'd rather have a teacher they can have teach anything. I see why they do it. I don't understand why the state allows it when there are people like me who have single subject certification (I had to have a minimum of 40 credits in chemistry to get my cert) who can't find jobs.
Financially, I don't know how much longer I can do this. With the economy being what it is, and my being unable to move right now, I'll take what I can get. I will start taking classes in life and earth science next summer, just in case but I'm also looking outside of teaching for a better paying job. If that happens before I get general science certification, I won't finish the cert. Most of the classes I need are offered only during the day so a full time job in engineering would put a stop to working towards that goal. I hate to think I'll still be in the position I am for the full three years it will take me to get the general science cert but you never know. As my grandmother used to day "Time passes anyway". Might as well get as many credits as I can as fast as I can but my ear is to the ground for something else as well.
I assume as the years pass, I'd get more efficient but I'm not sure how much so.
My wife has been averaging approx 40hrs a week since her 3rd year. Her first year was more like 55 hrs week! She'll be starting her 20th year next Wednesday. With your engineering background, you'll figure it out pretty quickly. Hang in there.
Well then go ahead and quit and call this press conference off. How many times are you going to say you are going to do it and keep showing up for work and taking courses? You must be a lot of fun in the teachers lounge, faculty meetings and oh yeah Happy Hour!
I will. Just as soon as I have something else. I'm not foolish enough to quit without another job in hand. Unfortunately, they're still laying off engineers. Plan A is go back into engineering. Teaching is still plan B and I have to prepare for the possibility it's my only option. So, until I actually have a job back in engineering, I'll do what I have to to make myself marketable as a teacher.
I assume as the years pass, I'd get more efficient but I'm not sure how much so.
My wife has been averaging approx 40hrs a week since her 3rd year. Her first year was more like 55 hrs week! She'll be starting her 20th year next Wednesday. With your engineering background, you'll figure it out pretty quickly. Hang in there.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. We'll see how this year goes. Since I have no other job offers, I guess I'm teaching again this year. I do like it so it's not all bad. I just hate that I can't settle in because I know I'm leaving one way or the other...eventuallly...
What's killing me right now is figuring out how to motivate students without grading everything. If I don't grade it, they don't do it. I do a lot of grading. I need to figure out some way to get them to do things without grading everything.
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On the subjest of complaining!
.)
Sadly, I'm what the state says they want. They don't like that people with as few as zero credits are teaching subjects like chemistry under a general science cert but schools want that flexibility. They'd rather have a teacher they can have teach anything. I see why they do it. I don't understand why the state allows it when there are people like me who have single subject certification (I had to have a minimum of 40 credits in chemistry to get my cert) who can't find jobs. 
