Regular ed and gifted kids (IEP, percentage, instructors, teachers)
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The instruction for a gifted should be differentiated to challenge their abilities. He gets information quickly, and has high conceptual abilities, and that is what is challenged. NOT just giving harder work or more work. challenging his conceptual abilities... looking for connections between things that most folks don't see, find ways to solve problems that aren't usually thought of at this point. That is gifted.
Please take some time to do some research into HOW to challenge a gifted child. All you are doing is peanlizing them for having these abiliities and teaching them to "hide" it....
shelly
You make excellents points! I hope some people here read them.
I am so glad my children attend a school where honors classes are valued by the administration and staff, where teachers enjoy their job and strive to challenge all children no matter how academically diverse their classrooms are, and where any teacher who said a student was "stuck" with her because she was not willing to teach an honors class (or any academic level) would be repremanded or even fired.
Have you taught in an academically diverse classroom? Only people who have never done it think it's easy. Go back to my original question. What do you do when you have academically diverse students in the same class? Honors is not an option unless we eliminate the lower level chemistry class and there is much more reason to have that than an honors course only a dozen students would take.
I said students are stuck with a regular level class not stuck with me, though they are stuck with me because I'm the only chemistry teacher . There is no option for honors chemistry without hiring another chemistry teacher and our school is not large enough to warrant that. Before chemistry was mandated for all students, there was an honors chemistry course but that had to be eliminated to offer a lower level course for the 60 students who need that as oppposed to the 12 who want an honors chemistry course. The lower level course, simply, benefits 5 times as many students.
The "gifted" kids don't want to do more or go deeper. They view that as punishment for being smart. So what am I supposed to do with them in an academically diverse classroom? There is no other choice here.
Have you taught in an academically diverse classroom? Only people who have never done it think it's easy. Go back to my original question. What do you do when you have academically diverse students in the same class? Honors is not an option unless we eliminate the lower level chemistry class and there is much more reason to have that than an honors course only a dozen students would take.
I said students are stuck with a regular level class not stuck with me, though they are stuck with me because I'm the only chemistry teacher . There is no option for honors chemistry without hiring another chemistry teacher and our school is not large enough to warrant that. Before chemistry was mandated for all students, there was an honors chemistry course but that had to be eliminated to offer a lower level course for the 60 students who need that as oppposed to the 12 who want an honors chemistry course. The lower level course, simply, benefits 5 times as many students.
The "gifted" kids don't want to do more or go deeper. They view that as punishment for being smart. So what am I supposed to do with them in an academically diverse classroom? There is no other choice here.
Please take the time to read my responses. I never said it was easy. I do teach to a variety of academic levels. I also said on another thread that I would be starting a list of universal teaching ideas after the holidays. Out of curiosity, how much training did you receive in methodology or diverse education?
Please take the time to read my responses. I never said it was easy. I do teach to a variety of academic levels. I also said on another thread that I would be starting a list of universal teaching ideas after the holidays. Out of curiosity, how much training did you receive in methodology or diverse education?
Try it with chemistry and physics.
Quite a bit. A large portion of my grad program was special learners. Fortunately, many of the things that help special ed kids work with regular ed kids as well.
Do tell how you would differentiate in a chemistry or physics classroom and get any amount of teaching done. I have 143 standards I'm required to teach, some of which take two weeks to teach. I can't do 10 minutes of instruction followed by practice time while I do 10 minutes of instruction to the next group. I'd get nothing taught.
Quite a bit. A large portion of my grad program was special learners. Fortunately, many of the things that help special ed kids work with regular ed kids as well.
Do tell how you would differentiate in a chemistry or physics classroom and get any amount of teaching done. I have 143 standards I'm required to teach, some of which take two weeks to teach. I can't do 10 minutes of instruction followed by practice time while I do 10 minutes of instruction to the next group. I'd get nothing taught.
Sure, as I said after the holidays when I get a bit more time. Physics is one of my favorite subjects to teach. I am really wondering how much of the problem is either in your school's environment or classroom management issues. The only other group of teachers I have heard who are as negative were in bad work environments that no one could have risen above.
Sure, as I said after the holidays when I get a bit more time. Physics is one of my favorite subjects to teach. I am really wondering how much of the problem is either in your school's environment or classroom management issues. The only other group of teachers I have heard who are as negative were in bad work environments that no one could have risen above.
Well, this is the only teaching work environement I know so I can't tell you.
I've tried going deeper into subject matter and having extra assignments. The students lost interest in going deeper because I don't put that material on the test. In fact, they came right out and asked why I bothered teaching things I'm not planning on testing them on. It's really the only way I can see to enrich the lectures without flunking the bottom half of the class. I try to relate the material to everyday life for the bottom of the class and explain where it's going for the top but they don't want to be bothered with anything they don't have to know for the test (except for my two students, of course, I could keep going and going with them.). There's a lot more than just what is in the books. With 20 years in chemistry and engineering, I know where a lot of what they're learning goes and can explain more than the book but the message is clear, if it's not on the test, they don't want to be bothered with it. Extra assignments, as I've stated are seen as punishment. They've petitioned on more than one occaision to be let out of assignments they think are beneath them but they don't want something else in place of them. They want the reward of less work because they're "gifted". (Quotes because I kind of think some of them just THINK they're gifted. I suspect this is why they want less work and to avoid going beyond what's in the book and going to be on the test.) The only deal I make is if they get an A on the test, I will forgive missing assignments but they take their chances there. One of my higher kids got a B on my last physics test so his zeros stay (he would have straight A's if someone could get him to study).
I'm very interested in how you differentiated chemistry and physics labs, lectures and assignments without the gifted set feeling they were being punished by being asked to do more because they could or blowing away the bottom of the class. I, literally, have special ed kids with below normal IQ's sitting next to kids who are "gifted" and, yes, I find differentiationg chemistry difficult. Physics to a lesser degree because the lower end doesn't usually take physics. Chemistry is the one I struggle with (all students must take chemistry to graduate from our school so I get them all.). I don't get complaints from the upper portion of the class in physics. I don't differentiate either. I do have a couple of students who differentiate for themselves and I just let them go.
When you taught chemistry/physics did all students have to take the classes or did you have the, typical, top 1/3 taking them? IMO, that makes a HUGE difference.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-27-2009 at 07:34 PM..
I'm very interested in how you differentiated chemistry and physics labs, lectures and assignments without the gifted set feeling they were being punished by being asked to do more because they could or blowing away the bottom of the class. I, literally, have special ed kids with below normal IQ's sitting next to kids who are "gifted" and, yes, I find differentiationg chemistry difficult. Physics to a lesser degree because the lower end doesn't usually take physics. Chemistry is the one I struggle with (all students must take chemistry to graduate from our school so I get them all.). I don't get complaints from the upper portion of the class in physics. I don't differentiate either. I do have a couple of students who differentiate for themselves and I just let them go.
I just have a minute, and promise to get you more information when my house clears out.
One idea that works great in many classes, but especially physics, also hits my state's objective for analyzing scientific media for accuracy.
Each unit, the students are assigned three videos (Youtube is a great source), articles, or news stories that contain the concept being taught. They have to write a review of each item in terms of how accurate it is. Of course, you can't say if something is accurate and complete unless you understand the concept to begin with. So, it is also a great mini-assessment before the unit test. I give students the entire unit length to work on this. They can use time at the end of class, before or after school or study hall.
The beauty of this is that you can assign the items to the students based on their needs. If there are many different items being used, the students are less likely to notice the different levels of difficulty! The students who are struggling can be assigned something from Annanberg's that is accurate and interactive to provide remediation. I would even go so far as to have a list just for students who are not passing their daily assessments.
I am amazed at how many student generated videos are in youtube. Some students are even motivated to create their own because they know they can do better.
This assignment also brings literacy into the science classroom (another big buzz right now, BUT why can't we bring science and math into social studies and language arts? sorry - that is another rant...)
I just have a minute, and promise to get you more information when my house clears out.
One idea that works great in many classes, but especially physics, also hits my state's objective for analyzing scientific media for accuracy.
Each unit, the students are assigned three videos (Youtube is a great source), articles, or news stories that contain the concept being taught. They have to write a review of each item in terms of how accurate it is. Of course, you can't say if something is accurate and complete unless you understand the concept to begin with. So, it is also a great mini-assessment before the unit test. I give students the entire unit length to work on this. They can use time at the end of class, before or after school or study hall.
The beauty of this is that you can assign the items to the students based on their needs. If there are many different items being used, the students are less likely to notice the different levels of difficulty! The students who are struggling can be assigned something from Annanberg's that is accurate and interactive to provide remediation. I would even go so far as to have a list just for students who are not passing their daily assessments.
I am amazed at how many student generated videos are in youtube. Some students are even motivated to create their own because they know they can do better.
This assignment also brings literacy into the science classroom (another big buzz right now, BUT why can't we bring science and math into social studies and language arts? sorry - that is another rant...)
How did this work for you in chemistry classes where you have kids from the entire spectrum in the same class? I can see this working fine in physics but physics is the top 1/3 of students. I don't have to worry about the bottom. It's, basically, high average on up so differentiation isn't as much of a problem or as difficult. I have kids in chemistry who can't read or write sitting next to the gifted. And they do notice when I give different assignments to other students. I'm having a problem with having differentiated term projects. I have kids and parents complaining that I accepted lower topics from other kids so I should from their child as well.
Videos sound like a great idea just as soon as I find 200 hours to review enough videos to differntiate an entire chemistry class . Finding just 3 different videos on 10 different levels for each topic, that are reliable (you know how much inaccurate junk is out there on youtube) will be quite an undertaking. If I were go look for three per student per unit on 10 different levels, I only need to find 360 reliable vidoes. I'll need to review 2 to 3 times that number to find ones that are reliable. And I'd have to redo this one every year since what's out on the internet changes. Yeah, I have time for that with six lab based preps, . Just as soon as I find an extra 200 hours I'll get right on that one.
The Annenberg site tends to be higher level. I do use their videos as an intro for chemistry topics and because I can't do demos in my classroom due to physical limitations, but I shy away from their physics videos because they are calculus based and I'm lucky if my physics kids have had trig let alone calculus. I've shown one or two but they go right over my student's heads because of the calculus.
How did this work for you in chemistry classes where you have kids from the entire spectrum in the same class? I can see this working fine in physics but physics is the top 1/3 of students. I don't have to worry about the bottom. It's, basically, high average on up so differentiation isn't as much of a problem or as difficult. I have kids in chemistry who can't read or write sitting next to the gifted. And they do notice when I give different assignments to other students. I'm having a problem with having differentiated term projects. I have kids and parents complaining that I accepted lower topics from other kids so I should from their child as well.
Videos sound like a great idea just as soon as I find 200 hours to review enough videos to differntiate an entire chemistry class . Finding just 3 different videos on 10 different levels for each topic, that are reliable (you know how much inaccurate junk is out there on youtube) will be quite an undertaking. If I were go look for three per student per unit on 10 different levels, I only need to find 360 reliable vidoes. I'll need to review 2 to 3 times that number to find ones that are reliable. And I'd have to redo this one every year since what's out on the internet changes. Yeah, I have time for that with six lab based preps, . Just as soon as I find an extra 200 hours I'll get right on that one.
The Annenberg site tends to be higher level. I do use their videos as an intro for chemistry topics and because I can't do demos in my classroom due to physical limitations, but I shy away from their physics videos because they are calculus based and I'm lucky if my physics kids have had trig let alone calculus. I've shown one or two but they go right over my student's heads because of the calculus.
I give up trying to break past your can't do attitude. Annenberg has many different levels. I have used them with EC students as young as 8. I will return to working with teachers who are interested in finding solutions, not excuses.
I give up trying to break past your can't do attitude. Annenberg has many different levels. I have used them with EC students as young as 8. I will return to working with teachers who are interested in finding solutions, not excuses.
That's fine but please answer the question of how well this worked in chemistry classrooms where you had kids who spanned the entire spectrum.
I'm sorry but what you just suggested will be very time consuming both to set up and to maintain year after year. That's a lot of videos I have to find, review and figure out which students to assign to. I've pointed out before that I have three lab based preps. I put in 60-80 hours a week right now and it will take 200 hours this year to do what you suggest and it's only one modification for one class. It's a summer project just for one class though there would be some duplication between my chemistry classes), physics, would be a stand alone and a lot less work simply because the student's don't spant the spectrum like they do in chemistry. My physics kids are basically above average to gifted. Chemistry runs the gammut.
So, how did this work in classes that span the spectrum? How did you answer your gifted kids when they asked why your special ed kids got easier videos? I have kids who can't read or write sitting next to college bound kids. Obviously, if you've taught in diverse classrooms, you've faced the same scenario. How did this work for them?
I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying I don't have time right now to pull something like this off. I teach three different lab based preps. Finding the time to do this for one of them will be a major undertaking. I have to review every video and hand assign them to the right students. I'd need 10 different levels. At three per topic, that's 30 for each of my 12 units. If they're 5 minutes each and I hit a home run every time (meaning I just happen to find 10 different levels that work purely by chance when I sit down in front of my computer), I'm looking at viewing 3 hours of videos if I do it non stop (allowing for download time) just for one unit.
Now, realistically, I'm not going to hit a home run each time. In fact, as I near the end when I need specific levels, I'll probably have to spend half an hour just finding the videos so we're probably looking at about 10 - 20 hours per unit to set this up. And it's not even something that once you put the time into you can use year after year because videos out on youtube come and go with the wind so I'd have to redo it every year. I just don't have that kind of time right now. If I had one prep, I'd do it but I have three lab based preps. I meet myself coming when I'm going right now.
This is more than I can chew right now. However, I would like to hear how this worked when you dealt with the full spectrum of kids in each class. How many different levels did you need to cover the range from special ed and can't even read to college bound? How much time did it take you to find all of the videos you needed? How did you handle it when kids questioned why other kids got lesser assignments? How did you handle the grading since some of the kids can't even write a coherent sentence? How many grading rubrics did you need? Did you do one per video or one per level for the child?
Just because I say something won't work for me now doesn't mean I think it's a bad idea. I just know my limitations and I don't have the time to do this right right now. I wish I did. Kids like computers and youtube (though I'd need to get tech involved because the computers the kids use have youtube blocked). I would like to hear how this worked for you when you faced science classes that had kis who ran the full spectrum. How much work it took you per class. How you graded the assignments. Plus any tips on finding videos on specific levels. Upper level, Annenberg will work, youtube seems to come in middle to high depending on the source. I just spent half an hour looking and didn't see anything I could use with many of my special ed kids. They'd be blown out of the water just on the graphics (we're on molecular geometry in one chemistry class and chemical reactions in the other.)
To my knowledge, Annenberg has one chemistry series (World of Chemistry) and one physics series (The Mechanical Universe). I'd appreciate it if you could post links to the other levels. I haven't seen multiple levels for my subjects on their site.
For those who haven't heard of this site. Annenberg makes avialable free educational videos on many subjects, including how to teach your subjects. Their site is:
You do have to register but they don't give out your email. The only messages I receive from them have to do with them improving or fixing things on the site. I'm very grateful to them because I have to buy my own videos for my classes and the chemistry series would be $500 alone. Granted streaming has it's issues but when you can't afford to buy the videos, it will do nicely.
Please do me a favor. If anyone finds the multiple levels of chemistry or physics on this site, send me a private message with a link. I'd love to find a physics series that better suits my students. Most of my students are either in algerba or trig when they start physics. The calc based series on Annenberg comes in too high for them though I do use excerpts from the videos.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-28-2009 at 08:53 AM..
Reason: typo
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Only people who have never done it think it's easy. Go back to my original question. What do you do when you have academically diverse students in the same class? Honors is not an option unless we eliminate the lower level chemistry class and there is much more reason to have that than an honors course only a dozen students would take.
. There is no option for honors chemistry without hiring another chemistry teacher and our school is not large enough to warrant that. Before chemistry was mandated for all students, there was an honors chemistry course but that had to be eliminated to offer a lower level course for the 60 students who need that as oppposed to the 12 who want an honors chemistry course. The lower level course, simply, benefits 5 times as many students.
I have 143 standards I'm required to teach, some of which take two weeks to teach. I can't do 10 minutes of instruction followed by practice time while I do 10 minutes of instruction to the next group. I'd get nothing taught.
