The Tennessee Septic Tank / Too Many Bedrooms Gotcha (Knoxville: real estate, new home)

[TreeFarm]

Also known as the Building Inspector's Tennessee Two Step.

OK, seriously, this seems to be a new problem for those building homes that require septic systems. Here's the deal.

When you go to build your new home, you will have to get a septic permit from the Groundwater Protection folks, who are state employees. They will ask you how many bedrooms your new home will have, and they will size the system and issue you a permit accordingly. They don't care about your house plans.

However, when the Building Department, who are county employees, reviews your building plans, they will check to see that you have no more bedrooms than your septic permit is sized for. Simple, no? No!

The Building Inspector will count the number of bedrooms using his criteria. He won't care if a room is designated bedroom or not. Basically, he is looking for any room with a door and a closet that's not a kitchen or bathroom. Got a closet in your study? Got a closet in the dining room, which in your case can be closed off with doors? Got a closet in the rec room? That's nice, because your three bedroom house just became a six bedroom as far as he is concerned, and they are not going to let you build it without a six bedroom septic system.

Your only options? Get a new septic tank permit for a system large enough to satisfy the Building Inspector, or change your plans so those rooms either have no closet or no door. And don't plan on leaving the closets or doors off and then adding them in as you build. They will be watching for that.

If you plan on building workshops or hobby rooms with built in storage, they will class them a bedrooms, according to a Building Inspector I spoke to. No word on whether they will also require any room with a door and a closet to have an egress window, but logic would dictate that they would do that too, since the code requires one in each bedroom.

What's the problem with putting in a larger septic system? One, it will cost a lot more money. "Costs rise exponentially as you go to the larger system," is a direct quote from one of the Groundwater Protection staff. Two, your lot may not be big enough to accept the larger system, which will require a larger tank and a larger drain field.

Why is this mess occurring? According to the Building Inspector I spoke to, the real estate crowd used to be responsible for pointing out the septic capacity in terms of bedrooms to potential buyers in the theory that no one would "knowingly" overload their septic system. Seems the theory didn't work, and/or some of the real estate folks have been less than enthusiastic about pointing out potential septic issues to their prospects.

In any event, I was told that new rules have dumped the problem squarely into the laps of the county Building Departments, and they are trying to fix it the only way they know. Of course, this is a patently unfair way to fix someone else's bad behavior, but mass punishment is the American way. I suspect this may end up in court, before all is said and done, but in the meantime, I thought I would pass this on. People who plan to build need to be aware of it.

[jguillot]

Hi TreeFarm,

This is a great post. Thanks for providing us with the information you learned from the building inspector. It sounds like anyone such as myself who is looking for property in Tennessee needs to be very careful with this issue unless they are buying property that has access to a city sewer system.

[TreeFarm]

Originally Posted by jguillot

Hi TreeFarm,

This is a great post. Thanks for providing us with the information you learned from the building inspector. It sounds like anyone such as myself who is looking for property in Tennessee needs to be very careful with this issue unless they are buying property that has access to a city sewer system.

Yes, that seems to be the case. I found out about it quite by accident. We have a contract for some new property in Roane County and will be building there. Since we planned to have a couple of hobby rooms, and I like closets (can't have too much storage), I am having to seriously think about how to deal with this.

[Shenandoah]

Originally Posted by TreeFarm

Since we planned to have a couple of hobby rooms, and I like closets (can't have too much storage), I am having to seriously think about how to deal with this.

Just don't put doors on your closets? Call them bookshelves instead?

Seriously.

blessings, Shen

[TreeFarm]

They are already on to that one. I asked.

[jimj]

Put the extra closets in the hall or laundry room? So if the room has to have an egress window to be a legal bedroom (and I bet it does) then if it doesn't it can't be can it? Which would mean that it would have to be ignored for septic reasons. Since egress windows have size specs all you have to do is size the window a coupld of inches smaller than the required size for egress.

[TreeFarm]

Hobby room storage should be in the hobby room; media room storage should be in the media room; sewing room storage should be in the sewing room; etc. I don't like the idea of being forced into odd design choices because the government can't figure out how to solve a problem without screwing over people who aren't part of the problem.

I didn't discuss egress windows with the Building Inspector, but I am pretty sure they will end up requiring them in any room they define as a a bedroom. How could they not? If it is a bedroom, the code requires it.

I don't know how they are going to deal with a spare room in a finished basement that has a closet. That ought to be interesting.

This whole thing is idiotic anyway. Any room can be turned into a bedroom, closet or not, all the owner has to do is put a wardrobe in there, for Pete's sake. This will do nothing to stop people from overloading a septic system.

[hiknapster]

I'm telling ya.

I thought Knoxville was crooked, but this all too weird.

[mbmouse]

Well shoot, this is new and news. When I bought in Greene Co. NO ONE could tell me where my septic tank was, or how big it was. The house was built in 1920 and the bathroom of course added later.It took me over a year, by watching where the grass grew the thickest, to find out where it was. The plan when I bought it was to add a second bathroom. No one could tell me if the tank was big enough and no one seemed to care either. I was told that because it was in the county I didn't have to get a building permit/inspections for anything other than the electrical, and that was the only inspection required too. I was also told that if anything did go bad with the septic tank that I could not put in a new bigger one seeing as city septic was run at the road, I would have to hook up to it for a nice fat fee. I asked if I had to have a septic inspection before I hooked up, they said they didn't do any other inspection except electrical. Sounded like a catch 22 for the county to me. Basically, they said I couldn't put in the bigger tank, but if I did, there was nothing they could or would do about it. Then again, like I said, this was in the county. I also never did get to putting in the second bathroom so I don't know what would have happened if I did, only speculation based on what I was told by the county and neighbors.
My folks live in Hawkins county and did a whole bunch of work including a new well and a added bathroom on a septic tank system. No permits or inspections required except electrical either. I guess it all depends on where you build/remodel.

[Elint]

Originally Posted by TreeFarm

Also known as the Building Inspector's Tennessee Two Step.

OK, seriously, this seems to be a new problem for those building homes that require septic systems. Here's the deal.

When you go to build your new home, you will have to get a septic permit from the Groundwater Protection folks, who are state employees. They will ask you how many bedrooms your new home will have, and they will size the system and issue you a permit accordingly. They don't care about your house plans.

However, when the Building Department, who are county employees, reviews your building plans, they will check to see that you have no more bedrooms than your septic permit is sized for. Simple, no? No!

The Building Inspector will count the number of bedrooms using his criteria. He won't care if a room is designated bedroom or not. Basically, he is looking for any room with a door and a closet that's not a kitchen or bathroom. Got a closet in your study? Got a closet in the dining room, which in your case can be closed off with doors? Got a closet in the rec room? That's nice, because your three bedroom house just became a six bedroom as far as he is concerned, and they are not going to let you build it without a six bedroom septic system.

Your only options? Get a new septic tank permit for a system large enough to satisfy the Building Inspector, or change your plans so those rooms either have no closet or no door. And don't plan on leaving the closets or doors off and then adding them in as you build. They will be watching for that.

If you plan on building workshops or hobby rooms with built in storage, they will class them a bedrooms, according to a Building Inspector I spoke to. No word on whether they will also require any room with a door and a closet to have an egress window, but logic would dictate that they would do that too, since the code requires one in each bedroom.

What's the problem with putting in a larger septic system? One, it will cost a lot more money. "Costs rise exponentially as you go to the larger system," is a direct quote from one of the Groundwater Protection staff. Two, your lot may not be big enough to accept the larger system, which will require a larger tank and a larger drain field.

Why is this mess occurring? According to the Building Inspector I spoke to, the real estate crowd used to be responsible for pointing out the septic capacity in terms of bedrooms to potential buyers in the theory that no one would "knowingly" overload their septic system. Seems the theory didn't work, and/or some of the real estate folks have been less than enthusiastic about pointing out potential septic issues to their prospects.

In any event, I was told that new rules have dumped the problem squarely into the laps of the county Building Departments, and they are trying to fix it the only way they know. Of course, this is a patently unfair way to fix someone else's bad behavior, but mass punishment is the American way. I suspect this may end up in court, before all is said and done, but in the meantime, I thought I would pass this on. People who plan to build need to be aware of it.

Jeepers...glad I looked at this thread. Anyone know the approximate cost of putting in a septic tank? Or the cost of digging a well? Or running electric from the highway? We're looking to buy some land and build the dream, and some idea of the basic costs would be great.