Tesla Model S (muscle car, vehicles, traction, lane)
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Why would people adopt something that doesn't fulfill a purpose?
For that price you can get a very good car..
When people pay money on a car they purchase what they like/want and something that suits their purpose and EV's make absolutely no sense..
Plus new cars have extremely clean tail pipe exhuast.. The air coming out of the exhuast pipes of new cars is cleaner then the air the car breathes in..
It fulfills a purpose for it's target market (which are generally very wealthy individuals). It's a gorgeous car with a lot of modern technology and its owners can guarantee that chances of seeing another one on the road are fairly slim as opposed to your typical BMZ or BMW. There is a market for this type of vehicle.
All new tech costs, be it EVs or big screen TVs. THe more peopel adopt, the cheaper it becomes. And telling everyone to wait until prices drop will not get prices to drop. You HAVE to have early adopters.
The first plasma TV's, bought by some of my engineers quite a while ago, ran $20K... now they are in a landfill. Sounds like a good investment to me.
i did the math on the electricity i'd need to run an EV (though i was using the Volt as an example) and it woudl cost me about a buck aqnd a half to a buck seventy five to commute in the car on electricity all week. that's less than a quarter the cost fo fuel in teh most economical petrol or diesel car available. Though to be fair, if you are buying ANY new car to save money on your commuing costs, your doing it wrong. It is a happy side note, but a side note is all it is.
Depends where you live, and the commuting distance. When I was back in the states, it was about 30 miles each way to work. I will be generous... let's say 10HP average... (though it would be way more than that, as the typical commuter was doing 75mph) One horsepower is about 745 watts. So do the math with that power draw, for an hour, going to and from work, at $0.17 a kW-hr. Now let's do the math for the pay-back time for a car that costs than much.... (assuming the batteries last forever, NOT).... the answer is a time period that is longer than you or I will live. Just my opinion (well, based on fact).
And they are still VASTLY cleaner than millions of individual point sources that are NOT regulated for cleaning and getting worse every year. At least coal plants are regulated and scrubber tech gets cleaner all the time.
Nuclear rules.
But they have to be out there now and adopted by people in order to generate the cost effective versions you want to buy. Gotta start sometime and waiting until the fuel runs out or at least hits $10/gallon is too late.
We have a long time until petroleum (or ethanol) fuels run out.
The first plasma TV's, bought by some of my engineers quite a while ago, ran $20K... now they are in a landfill. Sounds like a good investment to me.
TV and tech are not investment in anything but enjoyment of your life. How good an "investment" was your last vacation or a nice dinner out? C'mon, guy.
Point still stands, Tech costs when it's new and later it's cheaper AND better. How much is a current Plasma TV of the same size?
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Depends where you live, and the commuting distance. When I was back in the states, it was about 30 miles each way to work. I will be generous...
Average commute in the US is 30 miles round trip. the measn out of 200million drivers, approx. 100 million have a commute that is less than the Volt's electric range And more than that have a commute less than the Tesla or Leaf's range.
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let's say 10HP average... (though it would be way more than that, as the typical commuter was doing 75mph) One horsepower is about 745 watts. So do the math with that power draw, for an hour, going to and from work, at $0.17 a kW-hr. Now let's do the math for the pay-back time for a car that costs than much.... (assuming the batteries last forever, NOT).... the answer is a time period that is longer than you or I will live. Just my opinion (well, based on fact).
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You can do the same calculations on ANY new car, to show that a new car, even a new economy car, is a bad "investment" for energy payback. my ne MINI for example, is a bad choice compared to a paid off used car. But there's more reasons for buying or leasing new than simply monetary payback vs a used car. And that's a fact, too.
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Nuclear rules.
Agreed 100%
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We have a long time until petroleum (or ethanol) fuels run out.
TV and tech are not investment in anything but enjoyment of your life. How good an "investment" was your last vacation or a nice dinner out? C'mon, guy.
I don't take vacations, as I don't need to, as I live in a tropical paradise, and I have a master chef (well not technically her occupation) as the gf, so the answer is "very little".
Point still stands, Tech costs when it's new and later it's cheaper AND better. How much is a current Plasma TV of the same size?
Plasma TV's are virtually obsolete. They are now mostly LCD (which has gotten much better since when they first came out, and are not expensive. I have five of them in one house).
Tell that statement to the inventors of Beta video tapes... they were technically superior to VHS, and see where that ended up.
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Average commute in the US is 30 miles round trip. the measn out of 200million drivers, approx. 100 million have a commute that is less than the Volt's electric range And more than that have a commute less than the Tesla or Leaf's range.
You can do the same calculations on ANY new car, to show that a new car, even a new economy car, is a bad "investment" for energy payback. my ne MINI for example, is a bad choice compared to a paid off used car. But there's more reasons for buying or leasing new than simply monetary payback vs a used car. And that's a fact, too.
Don't care about energy payback. Maybe I am just the typical American (well, I don't live there anymore). I had only two cars there since I graduated from college, a long time ago, so the 'value' of them was excellent. (well, that doesn't count the 'play' cars, but they were garage queens, and the cams were radical enough that they would barely idle, but I digress, as usual). A car is just broken in at 200K miles.
Agreed 100%
But the costs wil go up radically before then.
First, I will likely be dead by then, second, Canada is sitting on a really huge pile of oil-bearing shale, and third, even at $10/gallon, the only people who would care are minimum-wage earners, like at McDonalds, and 'splain to me Lucy, how is that my issue?
The base model starts at $57,000 and it comes with a CVT transmission, a air suspension, 19" wheels, a 7 speaker sound system with a 200 watt amp. It weighs around 3,800 lbs and it has a 435hp electric engine.
The base model starts at $57,000 and it comes with a CVT transmission, a air suspension, 19" wheels, a 7 speaker sound system with a 200 watt amp. It weighs around 3,800 lbs and it has a 435hp electric engine.
But it has a crummy battery with limited range, mediochre power. And all of the options ar mongo expensive. By the time you add a few things, you are very close to or over the price tag of the more expensive trim packages. I cannot imagine wnating one without getting the upgraded batteries.
After watching "Revenge of the Electric Car", I wouldn't go near Tesla. The owner is smart, if not a genius. But car companies are filled with geniuses, with decades of experience in mass production. Or any kind of production for that matter. Writing software is a lot different than actually building products. Tesla has quite a history of unfilled orders, broken promises and jacking up prices after the huge deposit was placed. Nice idea...but I'd still put it in the novelty catagory.
You got that right....
First, when the batteries croak, that will cost a fortune.
Second, the price of the car is currently outrageous. I could buy two diesels that will get upwards of 50 mpg for that price.
Third, I hope your electricity is dirt cheap.... back when I lived in New England, it was $0.17 per kW-hour. Also, tell me about the performance when it was 20 degrees F out.
Fourth, where does your electrical energy come from? You may think you are doing the 'environmentally' correct thing.... but coal-driven generation plants, even with scrubbers, are a mess. Propane is better, and I fully support nuclear, though with only about 100 plants in the US for over 300M people, that is not going to cut the muster.....
Just my opinion, but it is too soon for all-electric and hybrids to really be cost-effective, in almost any way.
Are you serious? The people buying this car aren't looking to save money by buying a DD to save money on petrol.
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
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Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy15
The base model starts at $57,000 and it comes with a CVT transmission, a air suspension, 19" wheels, a 7 speaker sound system with a 200 watt amp. It weighs around 3,800 lbs and it has a 435hp electric motor.
People, let's not compare computer/electronics technology with battery technology. Computer technology has ALWAYS improved exponentially. Battery technology has NEVER improved exponentially. Lithium batteries today have 10 times the energy density of batteries from 125 years ago. How fast is a CPU today compared to one 40 years ago? Computers are an electronics technology. Batteries are a chemical technology. Advances in the chemistry field happen very slowly.
For this reason batteries won't be a viable way to store energy for automobiles in our lifetime.
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