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Go ahead and express your opinion, but just do so with the understanding that retail in both cities doesn't compare. On the most basic level, Dallas has zoning and Houston doesn't. You know, if you wanted to open up a boutique in Houston, you would be wise to stock it by sending your buyers to Dallas. Oh, you could send them to New York City, but that wouldn't be economical. The Dallas Market Center is frequented by 200,000 buyers from all fifty states and eighty nations.
If I tried comparing the Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas with the Texas Medical Center in Houston, you might chuckle politely at my naivity and shake your head. You might find the idea so absurd that it isn't worthy of a response. We all know that both of these medical centers don't compare. Likewise, Dallas isn't the energy capital of the world, but Houston is.
Why do you continue to insist that Houston has the same retail cake as Dallas?
I never said they are 'the same', that's more of your "fake news." I said they're about equal...separate/different, but equal (a tie). There's pretty much nothing you can get in Houston that you can't in Dallas, and vice versa.
I never said they are 'the same', that's more of your "fake news." I said they're about equal...separate/different, but equal (a tie). There's pretty much nothing you can get in Houston that you can't in Dallas, and vice versa.
I am trying to relate information about Texas retail to people thinking about relocating to our state while living thousands of miles away. The best way to do that is to contrast, not compare every city in Texas as equal and average chop liver.
For example, the question of what is prime retail in Dallas is easier to define than it is in Houston. Looking at a map, Preston Road, home to Highland Park Village and the Plaza at Preston Center, is often called the golden retail corridor. It use to home to the now demolished Valley View (Once home to a Bloomingdales) and the demolished Prestonwood Town Center (It home to both a Neiman Marcus and a Lord &Taylor). Preston Road starts off as Oak Lawn Avenue which has its roots in The Dallas Market Center and the Dallas Design District. To the west of Preston Road, the Dallas Parkway travels northward running parrallel with Preston Road and is home to Inwood Village, the Galleria Dallas, the Shops at Willow Bend (which has a Neiman Marcus), and, here lately, Legacy West which is still under construction. Finally, to the east of Preston Road is Central Expressway. It is home to Knox-Henderson and NorthPark Center.
Every shopping center I mention along these three corridors either does or, in the case of Legacy West retail development, will house luxury retail.
In contrast to these three corridors in Dallas, in Houston, there is Westheimer.
Wouldn't you at least call that a huge contrast?
I didn't mention Harry Hines Boulevard which, along with Preston Road and the Dallas Parkway, also is born out of both the Dallas Design District and the Dallas Market Center. As Preston Road is called the golden retail corridor, Harry Hines is the golden wholesale corridor.
Last edited by Dallas retail updater; 12-18-2016 at 02:56 PM..
There's more to life in a city than shopping. A city that's just about shopping isn't a place where I'd like to live.
Anytime one relocates to a new state, they will desire insight into the differences of its cities. While it is but one aspect, retail is important to know.
I am trying to relate information about Texas retail to people thinking about relocating to our state while living thousands of miles away. The best way to do that is to contrast, not compare every city in Texas as equal and average chop liver.
For example, the question of what is prime retail in Dallas is easier to define than it is in Houston. Looking at a map, Preston Road, home to Highland Park Village and the Plaza at Preston Center, is often called the golden retail corridor. It use to home to the now demolished Valley View (Once home to a Bloomingdales) and the demolished Prestonwood Town Center (It home to both a Neiman Marcus and a Lord &Taylor). Preston Road starts off as Oak Lawn Avenue which has its roots in The Dallas Market Center and the Dallas Design District. To the west of Preston Road, the Dallas Parkway travels northward running parrallel with Preston Road and is home to Inwood Village, the Galleria Dallas, the Shops at Willow Bend (which has a Neiman Marcus), and, here lately, Legacy West which is still under construction. Finally, to the east of Preston Road is Central Expressway. It is home to Knox-Henderson and NorthPark Center.
Every shopping center I mention along these three corridors either does or, in the case of Legacy West retail development, will house luxury retail.
In contrast to these three corridors in Dallas, in Houston, there is Westheimer.
Wouldn't you at least call that a huge contrast?
I didn't mention Harry Hines Boulevard which, along with Preston Road and the Dallas Parkway, also is born out of both the Dallas Design District and the Dallas Market Center. As Preston Road is called the golden retail corridor, Harry Hines is the golden wholesale corridor.
No, I call that a tie, at best. There are several major retail corridors in Houston. In addition to Westheimer, which is behemoth (and the largest in Texas), Houston has Post Oak Blvd and Post Oak Central, Uptown Park Blvd, Kirby Drive featuring West Ave, and Rice Village...and soon the fabulous Kirby Collection going up in Upper Kirby.
And I remember when Dallas had all that over-built excess of retail that it could not afford to sustain/maintain, before it all crashed and all those retailers closed and left Dallas.
Houston is loaded with great retail, so is Dallas...the difference is that Houston isn't obsessed with it and feels no need to shout it from the rooftops. As well, the lay-out is different: Houston more centralized, Dallas more scattered. Houston is like a dollar in the middle of the table, Dallas is four quarters scattered around the table. Different/separate, but equal (a tie).
Anyway, don't use maps and hearsay to create all this nonsense...go to Houston and see for yourself, so you can see reality like the rest of us.
No, I call that a tie, at best. There are several major retail corridors in Houston. In addition to Westheimer, which is behemoth (and the largest in Texas), Houston has Post Oak Blvd and Post Oak Central, Uptown Park Blvd, Kirby Drive featuring West Ave, and Rice Village...and soon the fabulous Kirby Collection going up in Upper Kirby.
And I remember when Dallas had all that over-built excess of retail that it could not afford to sustain/maintain, before it all crashed and all those retailers closed and left Dallas.
Houston is loaded with great retail, so is Dallas...the difference is that Houston isn't obsessed with it and feels no need to shout it from the rooftops. As well, the lay-out is different: Houston more centralized, Dallas more scattered. Houston is like a dollar in the middle of the table, Dallas is four quarters scattered around the table. Different/separate, but equal (a tie).
Anyway, don't use maps and hearsay to create all this nonsense...go to Houston and see for yourself, so you can see reality like the rest of us.
The Dallas area is indeed four quarters and each quarter of it has begun to form its own luxury retail. These quarters are Dallas, Plano, Fort Worth, and South Lake.
The way the fellow is listing Dallas and Houston luxury retail together in this forum is misleading. Most of the luxury retail in Houston is located within the dollar bill as you say. Meanwhile, there is going to be a substantial amount of luxury retail located within the other three quarters of the Dallas area. In other words, the gentleman's list is comparing the luxury retail in the whole Houston metropolitan area with that within just the city of Dallas.
This would be considered unfair if the list of luxury retail within the city of Dallas alone didn't still compare with that of the whole metropolitan area of Houston. Have you ever bothered to tally up the number of each?
Here is a list of the other three shopping centers and districts in the other three quarters of tge Dallas area expected to house luxury retail:
1) The Shops at Clearfork in Fort Worth. (This shopping center is being built in close proximity to the existing University Park Village shopping center)
2) Southlake Town Square.
3) Legacy West in Plano with a whopping 415,000 square feet of retail space.
The Shops at Willow Bend as well with the anchor of a Nieman Marcus department store and many luxury home furnishing stores.
Plano is a little monster now, but Dallas should be fearing SouthLake most. It is located just on the northwest tip of DFW airport.
Let me also add that the list being kept comparing Dallas and Houston luxury retail castes Preston Center in a poor light. Outside of the Houston Galleria and the contemporary River Oaks District, there isn't another shopping center or district in Houston that compares to Preston Center.
Last edited by Dallas retail updater; 12-19-2016 at 10:29 AM..
The Dallas area is indeed four quarters and each quarter of it has begun to form its own luxury retail. These quarters are Dallas, Plano, Fort Worth, and South Lake.
The way the fellow is listing Dallas and Houston luxury retail together in this forum is misleading. Most of the luxury retail in Houston is located within the dollar bill as you say. Meanwhile, there is going to be a substantial amount of luxury retail located within the other three quarters of the Dallas area. In other words, the gentleman's list is comparing the luxury retail in the whole Houston metropolitan area with that within just the city of Dallas.
This would be considered unfair if the list of luxury retail within the city of Dallas alone didn't still compare with that of the whole metropolitan area of Houston. Have you ever bothered to tally up the number of each?
Here is a list of the other three shopping centers and districts in the other three quarters of tge Dallas area expected to house luxury retail:
1) The Shops at Clearfork in Fort Worth. (This shopping center is being built in close proximity to the existing University Park Village shopping center)
2) Southlake Town Square.
3) Legacy West in Plano with a whopping 415,000 square feet of retail space.
The Shops at Willow Bend as well with the anchor of a Nieman Marcus department store and many luxury home furnishing stores.
Plano is a little monster now, but Dallas should be fearing SouthLake most. It is located just on the northwest tip of DFW airport.
Let me also add that the list being kept comparing Dallas and Houston luxury retail castes Preston Center in a poor light. Outside of the Houston Galleria and the contemporary River Oaks District, there isn't another shopping center or district in Houston that compares to Preston Center.
City of Houston is far physically larger than City of Dallas and makes up a far larger share of the regional population than Dallas does for DFW so it makes sense that most luxury retail is in the actual city. And even with that there's still luxury retail outside of the city as well.
There's another thread in the Texas forum that shows the luxury shops available in each. As you will notice the list is mostly the same stores with some unique Texas exclusives in both Houston and DFW. DFW does have a few more exclusive stores but that's about it.
Shoppers will have plenty of luxury retail in each. Not enough difference to worry about for anyone not obsessed with comparing every single individual shopping center between the two regions.
City of Houston is far physically larger than City of Dallas and makes up a far larger share of the regional population than Dallas does for DFW so it makes sense that most luxury retail is in the actual city. And even with that there's still luxury retail outside of the city as well.
There's another thread in the Texas forum that shows the luxury shops available in each. As you will notice the list is mostly the same stores with some unique Texas exclusives in both Houston and DFW. DFW does have a few more exclusive stores but that's about it.
Shoppers will have plenty of luxury retail in each. Not enough difference to worry about for anyone not obsessed with comparing every single individual shopping center between the two regions.
I don't want this thread shut down for appearing to go round and around. I'm not claiming here that the retail in Houston isn't incredible. I'm contrasting here to show that the retail in both cities aren't on the same level. Dallas retail is on another level than it is in Houston. Singnificant retail can pop out of nowhere in the Dallas area in a few years while it might take ten years for it to do the same in Houston. Shoot, this fact might keep that same retail from ever happening in Houston.
Dallas retail is ferocious and highly competitive. As I pointed out, bloodbaths result because of it. The area retail is so much more dynamic than it is in Houston that it is amusing. Again, as the focus of luxury retail has remained in the same place in Houston around the Houston Galleria for the last fifty years, the luxury market in the Dallas area has moved all over the place popping up and disappearing within The Miracle Mile and Preston Center, forming and disappearing within the Dallas Galleria and the North Dallas area, relocating back to NorthPark Center and Highland Park Village, and is now spreading big time into the central Dallas area.
Okay, so figure this dynanics pertaining to Dallas retail places it one level above Houston. Another level is acheived by Dallas in its huge wholesale markets. The Dallas Market Center alone attracts over 200,000 buyers to it. These buyers are a window unto the world which is why Dallas area stores are able to display such an incredible variety of merchandise.
Okay, there is two levels right there.
Last edited by Dallas retail updater; 12-19-2016 at 01:08 PM..
I don't want this thread shut down for appearing to go round and around. I'm not claiming here that the retail in Houston isn't incredible. I'm contrasting here to show that the retail in both cities aren't on the same level. Dallas retail is on another level than it is in Houston. Singnificant retail can pop out of nowhere in the Dallas area in a few years while it might take ten years for it to do the same in Houston. Shoot, this fact might keep that same retail from ever happening in Houston.
Dallas retail is ferocious and highly competitive. As I pointed out, bloodbaths result because of it. The area retail is so much more dynamic than it is in Houston that it is amusing. Again, as the focus of luxury retail has remained in the same place in Houston around the Houston Galleria for the last fifty years, the luxury market in the Dallas area has moved all over the place popping up and disappearing within The Miracle Mile and Preston Center, forming and disappearing within the Dallas Galleria and the North Dallas area, relocating back to NorthPark Center and Highland Park Village, and is now spreading big time into the central Dallas area.
Okay, so figure this dynanics pertaining to Dallas retail places it one level above Houston. Another level is acheived by Dallas in its huge wholesale markets. The Dallas Market Center alone attracts over 200,000 buyers to it. These buyers are a window unto the world which is why Dallas area stores are able to display such an incredible variety of merchandise.
Okay, there is two levels right there.
Just let it go, you're embarrassing yourself. In fact, we're embarrassed for you. As many posters have shown, you've lost the argument. All this stretching and bending is futile. Houston/Dallas are tied in this regard. There's no loser here, they're both winners, OK? They're both great shopping destinations, done differently. The Houston Galleria (35 million visitors per year, alone) does more volume than NorthPark, Dallas Galleria, and Shops at Willow Bend combined...and it continues to expand. Within a one mile section of Westheimer is The Houston Galleria, River Oaks District, Highland Village, and West Ave...quite similar to a one mile section of Wilshire Blvd through Beverly Hills, with nearly the same identical very high-end luxury retailers. Dallas has no answer for this. Or, I should say, it answers this but differently.
Preston Center?! Houston has The River Oaks Shopping Center, which is also expanding. I will say Dallas is better at football. There, does that make you feel better?! Again, it's a moot argument, it's nonsense and ridiculous. The same luxury brands are available in both cities.
Luxury retail in Houston has thrived for years, and it's expanding off the charts. Saks Fifth Avenue Houston Galleria has been expanded three times over its 40 year history to accommodate the extraordinary volume. It's now the 2nd largest flagship in the company outside New York. Dallas has no Saks Fifth Avenue. The Saks in Dallas closed, the Bloomingdale's closed, the Barneys closed, the Giorgio Armani closed, the Armani Collezioni closed, etc. The notion that Dallas is 'a level' above Houston in luxury retail is a joke and everybody knows it. They're both still great, however, and these days basically tied. Case closed.
Just let it go, you're embarrassing yourself. In fact, we're embarrassed for you. As many posters have shown, you've lost the argument. All this stretching and bending is futile. Houston/Dallas are tied in this regard. There's no loser here, they're both winners, OK? They're both great shopping destinations, done differently. The Houston Galleria (35 million visitors per year, alone) does more volume than NorthPark, Dallas Galleria, and Shops at Willow Bend combined...and it continues to expand. Within a one mile section of Westheimer is The Houston Galleria, River Oaks District, Highland Village, and West Ave...quite similar to a one mile section of Wilshire Blvd through Beverly Hills, with nearly the same identical very high-end luxury retailers. Dallas has no answer for this. Or, I should say, it answers this but differently.
Preston Center?! Houston has The River Oaks Shopping Center, which is also expanding. I will say Dallas is better at football. There, does that make you feel better?! Again, it's a moot argument, it's nonsense and ridiculous. The same luxury brands are available in both cities.
Luxury retail in Houston has thrived for years, and it's expanding off the charts. Saks Fifth Avenue Houston Galleria has been expanded three times over its 40 year history to accommodate the extraordinary volume. It's now the 2nd largest flagship in the company outside New York. Dallas has no Saks Fifth Avenue. The Saks in Dallas closed, the Bloomingdale's closed, the Barneys closed, the Giorgio Armani closed, the Armani Collezioni closed, etc. The notion that Dallas is 'a level' above Houston in luxury retail is a joke and everybody knows it. They're both still great, however, and these days basically tied. Case closed.
When outside luxury stores attempted to enter into the Dallas retail scene thirty years ago, as they are now doing today in Houston, believe it or not, the high quality home grown retail in Dallas rose up to kick their butt.
The result was the blood bath that you are describing. Outside luxury stores have always had a very difficut time competing in Dallas. They don't do their homework and they don't realize the level of competition.
Just what is Preston Center?
Many don't realize that it is much more than the Plaza at Preston Center. While there is about 200,000 square feet of retail located within the Plaza at Preston Center which is located in the city of University Park. there is another half million square feet of retail located in the remaining portion that is Preston Center (which, in turn, is located in Dallas).
Preston Center is the second most prime market to locate ones business office in North Texas next to Uptown Dallas. That fact alone should keep pushing up the scale of its retail within the little commercial area.
Again, look it up on a map. Preston Center is a micro downtown.
Greenway Plaza in houston could be used as a comparison, but it isn't located in the midst of the most prime residential areas of Houston which is the case with Preston Center to the city of Dallas surrounding it.
Having considered it, I am tempted to add Preston Center to Dallas's many other monuments to retail.
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