Tollways...a necessary Evil??

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

Interesting points once again. My concerns here in North Texas is the ever increasing traffic that negates those 75 MPH speed limits because the tollways are are also congested. There is nothing worse than being stuck in traffic and paying for it. People in the Dallas area take tolls out necessity for the most part but it has become a habit and maybe an subconscious addiction for some people. Since most of us have toll tags now, we don't even see the bill so it's out of sight out mind in many cases. We have plenty of Freeways, but the growing suburbs have added or expanded the toll roads out of necessity and these private companies building them are reaping the rewards over and over again.

Although it is fitting that the richest/nicest suburbs are the ones that pay tolls to skip stoplights. And it's not like side streets are much better during rush hour with all of the school zones. Weekends can be a breeze though. Pretty much all of the proposed expansions in the growing areas of north DFW are tollways, and I highly doubt the tolls are ever removed like back in the day.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Shock

San Antonio has one of the best freeways systems in Texas and has no toll roads. So no, they are not a necessary evil. I will say 1604 is terrible traffic but they’re finally going to be expanding it.

"Best?" Seriously? Have you been outside San Antonio?

Now San Antonio is the slowest growing of the major Texas metros (not that it is "slow" growing) and has less of an 8-5 economy with all the military and tourism. So its needs are different than the other metros.

But if you have massive growth like Houston, DFW and Austin, you need tolls to get new capacity in a reasonable time frame. Maybe we don't need tolls in Tyler or Laredo.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

While its true that vehicles are much lighter than they used to be, one should also note that there is MUCH more traffic than there used to be too. Also not only do these roads have to withstand vehicular wear but weather and terrain as well.

Its not cars that tear up roads. Its the big trucks. And they allowed them to carry a lot heavier loads 20-30 years ago with only a minimal increase in taxes.

[KerrTown]

Originally Posted by bu2

"Best?" Seriously? Have you been outside San Antonio?

I guess the OP has never been outside of S.A. I admire S.A. for it's lack of toll roads but I don't like the S.A./Austin portion of the state when it comes to highway design. Compared to Houston, the freeways in that part of Texas are narrower (no room to move, unlike I-10 Katy Freeway) and adhere to an older (less safe for the current traffic level) design.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

I guess the OP has never been outside of S.A. I admire S.A. for it's lack of toll roads but I don't like the S.A./Austin portion of the state when it comes to highway design. Compared to Houston, the freeways in that part of Texas are narrower (no room to move, unlike I-10 Katy Freeway) and adhere to an older (less safe for the current traffic level) design.

When you say older design, are the newer roads also built to older standards than DFW / Houston?

I agree though that Austin and San Antonio seem to have really been shafted in terms of road infrastructure in comparison to DFW and Houston.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by bu2

"Best?" Seriously? Have you been outside San Antonio?

Now San Antonio is the slowest growing of the major Texas metros (not that it is "slow" growing) and has less of an 8-5 economy with all the military and tourism. So its needs are different than the other metros.

But if you have massive growth like Houston, DFW and Austin, you need tolls to get new capacity in a reasonable time frame. Maybe we don't need tolls in Tyler or Laredo.

Yeah one of the best. I didn’t say the best. So do you really think my statement is that outrageous?
The traffic volume on the freeways in SA is nothing like its other sister cities. Drivers spend less time on the road in SA. Pretty common knowledge. SA doesn’t get the funding Houston or Dallas receive but does pretty good with what is given.

Maybe you’re thinking in terms of total freeway miles Houston and Dallas have or some other irrelevant stat.
Slowest growing? Not sure what you’re talking about as it’s simply not true. Just look at the front page of this forum.

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

I guess the OP has never been outside of S.A. I admire S.A. for it's lack of toll roads but I don't like the S.A./Austin portion of the state when it comes to highway design. Compared to Houston, the freeways in that part of Texas are narrower (no room to move, unlike I-10 Katy Freeway) and adhere to an older (less safe for the current traffic level) design.

Just for the record, the OP (me) is not in S.A but DFW, but I do agree with your assessments. However, I think the growth in San Antonio and Austin will very soon become a "combined statistical metro area" like Like San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, Washington DC and Baltimore and others. The Austin/S.A corridor already has nearly 5 million people. The fastest ways to get those roads built will most likely be toll roads. The 130 tollway appears to be the second mayor road already connecting both cities in a way (but very expensive to drive). I can see Texas Highway 1 one extending as a toll road all the way to SA from Austin one day as well. Maybe it's already in the works?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Shock

Yeah one of the best. I didn’t say the best. So do you really think my statement is that outrageous?
The traffic volume on the freeways in SA is nothing like its other sister cities. Drivers spend less time on the road in SA. Pretty common knowledge. SA doesn’t get the funding Houston or Dallas receive but does pretty good with what is given.

Maybe you’re thinking in terms of total freeway miles Houston and Dallas have or some other irrelevant stat.
Slowest growing? Not sure what you’re talking about as it’s simply not true. Just look at the front page of this forum.

We are talking about different things. Like KerrTown said, the freeway designs in San Antonio are very outdated.

And in growth, DFW, Houston and Austin have outstripped San Antonio in growth for decades, regardless of what one or two years might show.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

Just for the record, the OP (me) is not in S.A but DFW, but I do agree with your assessments. However, I think the growth in San Antonio and Austin will very soon become a "combined statistical metro area" like Like San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, Washington DC and Baltimore and others. The Austin/S.A corridor already has nearly 5 million people. The fastest ways to get those roads built will most likely be toll roads. The 130 tollway appears to be the second mayor road already connecting both cities in a way (but very expensive to drive). I can see Texas Highway 1 one extending as a toll road all the way to SA from Austin one day as well. Maybe it's already in the works?

It will be more like NYC and Philadelphia. Two distinct areas. There just won't be enough employment overlap. But the development will run together along the I-35 corridor.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by bu2

We are talking about different things. Like KerrTown said, the freeway designs in San Antonio are very outdated.

And in growth, DFW, Houston and Austin have outstripped San Antonio in growth for decades, regardless of what one or two years might show.

KerrTown is a known troll, that’s why I don’t quote him. Your’re being very vague. Every city has some part of outdated freeway. North loop 410 and I10 are 10 lanes across with modern interchanges. 35 is 8 to 10 lanes thru the majority of the city. The double deck portion of 35/10 is unique to SA and Austin. We are all Texans so I’m not here to do city vs city like you may like. My point that I was making before all of this was that tolls are not a necessary evil and SA is clear evidence of that.