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I've been reading these threads for a number of weeks and have learned a lot about Toronto and other areas. Thank you for the great posts.
My wife and I live in Cary, NC with our 2 y/o son. I work as a manufacturing engineer. Cary a good place to raise a family, ranked highly. etc. but after 5 years of living here, we are looking for a change.
We are playing with the idea of going to Toronto, but I can't make my damn mind up! I had a few questions I was hoping some natives/expats could answer:
-Would you recommend Toronto to a young small family?
-Are there lots of parks/open spaces ?
-Is a car a necessity for you? I would love to hop on a bus/subway to go to work, but I don't know if this is feasible. I know this is a loaded question and depends on where you live, what you do, etc. etc. but I'm more interesting in hearing individual cases
-Socially, is living in Canada any different than living in the USA?
-In general, are Canadians more open-minded/accepting of differences?
Of course, we will have to visit to see if it's a good fit, but I appreciate any advice! Thank you!
I've been reading these threads for a number of weeks and have learned a lot about Toronto and other areas. Thank you for the great posts.
My wife and I live in Cary, NC with our 2 y/o son. I work as a manufacturing engineer. Cary a good place to raise a family, ranked highly. etc. but after 5 years of living here, we are looking for a change.
We are playing with the idea of going to Toronto, but I can't make my damn mind up! I had a few questions I was hoping some natives/expats could answer:
-Would you recommend Toronto to a young small family?
-Are there lots of parks/open spaces ?
-Is a car a necessity for you? I would love to hop on a bus/subway to go to work, but I don't know if this is feasible. I know this is a loaded question and depends on where you live, what you do, etc. etc. but I'm more interesting in hearing individual cases
-Socially, is living in Canada any different than living in the USA?
-In general, are Canadians more open-minded/accepting of differences?
Of course, we will have to visit to see if it's a good fit, but I appreciate any advice! Thank you!
First and most important question, do you already have authorization to work in Canada. If not, it will be very difficult to obtain a work visa (although perhaps you can get a TN as an engineer).
Cary, NC is a place many Torontonians with a young family dream of moving to. Warmer weather, friendlier people, less congestion and most importantly a huge difference in cost of living.
At this point it is almost impossible to purchase a home in central Toronto. There is affordable housing in the GTA but you are looking at being on the outskirts of town.
Your questions about public transportation suggest you want to be in central Toronto. This would lead you to rent/purchase a condo. Renting can be tough especially with no work history in Canada. Purchasing a condo is an option but very expensive. I'm assuming you own a home in Cary, its probably around the same price that a 700 square foot condo in central Toronto is. Condo living is not for everyone, be prepared to hear your neighbours, noises in the hallways are the worst.
Regarding public transportation, riding the TTC is a miserable experience. The buses are lousy and the subways are unreliable and way over crowded. You will wind up feeling like you are living in a third world country when you look around and see your fellow riders.
There are some nice park and ravines around Toronto. But if you like the outdoors, you can only enjoy it from April to mid November. Once winter hits, you won't want to go outside. How do you feel about grey, dark skies?
Toronto is a very depressing place overall. Canadians are uptight, not open to outsiders. There is a HUGE third world population in Toronto who have no interest in assimilating or welcoming outsiders in.
A lot of anti-American Canadians (built on jelousy and ignorance). White southerners would not be very welcome in Toronto.
I hope the political divide in the U.S. is not your main motivator for looking at Canada/Toronto. If so, you will be moving for the wrong reasons. Canada (especially Toronto) is no utopia.
If you absolutely want to move up here, look at mid-size cities in Southern Ontario (Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo, London, Windsor). But make sure you have a job lined up first.
I would stay in the south, check out Nashville. Strong economy, great city and you will be amongst your own people (southerners).
I've been reading these threads for a number of weeks and have learned a lot about Toronto and other areas. Thank you for the great posts.
My wife and I live in Cary, NC with our 2 y/o son. I work as a manufacturing engineer. Cary a good place to raise a family, ranked highly. etc. but after 5 years of living here, we are looking for a change.
We are playing with the idea of going to Toronto, but I can't make my damn mind up! I had a few questions I was hoping some natives/expats could answer:
-Would you recommend Toronto to a young small family?
-Are there lots of parks/open spaces ?
-Is a car a necessity for you? I would love to hop on a bus/subway to go to work, but I don't know if this is feasible. I know this is a loaded question and depends on where you live, what you do, etc. etc. but I'm more interesting in hearing individual cases
-Socially, is living in Canada any different than living in the USA?
-In general, are Canadians more open-minded/accepting of differences?
Of course, we will have to visit to see if it's a good fit, but I appreciate any advice! Thank you!
1.) It is a very safe city with lots of recreational programs for kids. There is no such thing as "the inner city" in Canada therefore you should not think twice about enrolling your kids in Toronto's public school system. If you happen to be Catholic, you can also enroll in Catholic school for free, because Catholic schools in Ontario are public. There are parks everywhere. Don't listen to Torontonians who complain of "bad areas" like Jane and Finch. They're poor areas, but don't have the crime of America's dangerous neighborhoods.
2.) It is not necessary to have a car downtown. You can take the bus almost anywhere, and bus routes on major streets run 24-7, even in suburban Toronto. However it depends on how much time you have. People may complain about the transit system in Toronto, but compared to North Carolina's transit systems, the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) is a $3 private taxi to anywhere in the city.
3.) Yes, it is a lot more politically correct. If you are conservative, you have to keep your mouth shut. If you think Bush was a great president, keep it to yourself. You will not hear conservative talk radio or people in the media calling for a ban on mosque building or a dismantling of the free health system. People are more polite, which may make it harder to form deeper friendships, but like anything interpersonal, it depends on how much of an effort you make. I know that people in the South can be polite with their Southern hospitality, but Canadian politeness is something else. It's more like a fear of offending other people or coming off as conservative or racist.
4.) Canadians are more open-minded/accepting of CERTAIN differences. For example, if you are LGBT, disabled, or poor, they are very open-minded and accepting. In terms of being open-minded/accepting of differences of opinion, not really unless you are non-White. If you are White, you must be liberal. If you are non-White, feel free to keep your daughters from dating people of other races, no one will be mad at you other than your own daughters.
Remember that Canada is a separate country and therefore you can't just get up and move to Toronto. You need to apply to immigrate. I notice you said that you're a manufacturing engineer, which means that you can probably immigrate with ease, but it will take possibly a year before you can pack your bags. Keep that in mind.
I don't completely agree, I mean there are certainly some conservative minded people in Toronto (especially in more suburban areas). There are liberals everywhere, whether that's Raleigh or Toronto, I think Raleigh liberals would push back if you took a conservative stance on an issue. But probably the conservative ideals held by Canadians are less likely to be based on religion and more likely based on personal experience, reason, economic theory, etc.
-Would you recommend Toronto to a young small family?
Yes. Toronto is a very good city for young families. It is very expensive if you want a single family house living as prices are similar to Boston.
-Are there lots of parks/open spaces ?
Tons. Outside downtown, there is open spaces everywhere. Just check out google map.
-Is a car a necessity for you? I would love to hop on a bus/subway to go to work, but I don't know if this is feasible. I know this is a loaded question and depends on where you live, what you do, etc. etc. but I'm more interesting in hearing individual cases
Depending where you live. If you live in central Toronto, which means downtown and midtown between Bathurst st and Bayview ave (which means a house will be worth at least $800k), or directly along one of the subway stations, you probably can do without a car. Otherwise, you still need a car. As someone mentioned, public transit here in not only expensive, but also very unreliable. Toronto is not Munich or Berlin. It is more like Boston when it comes to transit.
-Socially, is living in Canada any different than living in the USA?
Not much difference from the blue states. However, be prepared that everything is more expensive. The Toronto star just publish an article asking why young people need to pay $8000 a year just to insure a Honda Civic.
-In general, are Canadians more open-minded/accepting of differences?
really depends, like in the US. But in major cities, I would think so.
First and most important question, do you already have authorization to work in Canada. If not, it will be very difficult to obtain a work visa (although perhaps you can get a TN as an engineer).
Cary, NC is a place many Torontonians with a young family dream of moving to. Warmer weather, friendlier people, less congestion and most importantly a huge difference in cost of living.
At this point it is almost impossible to purchase a home in central Toronto. There is affordable housing in the GTA but you are looking at being on the outskirts of town.
Your questions about public transportation suggest you want to be in central Toronto. This would lead you to rent/purchase a condo. Renting can be tough especially with no work history in Canada. Purchasing a condo is an option but very expensive. I'm assuming you own a home in Cary, its probably around the same price that a 700 square foot condo in central Toronto is. Condo living is not for everyone, be prepared to hear your neighbours, noises in the hallways are the worst.
Regarding public transportation, riding the TTC is a miserable experience. The buses are lousy and the subways are unreliable and way over crowded. You will wind up feeling like you are living in a third world country when you look around and see your fellow riders.
There are some nice park and ravines around Toronto. But if you like the outdoors, you can only enjoy it from April to mid November. Once winter hits, you won't want to go outside. How do you feel about grey, dark skies?
Toronto is a very depressing place overall. Canadians are uptight, not open to outsiders. There is a HUGE third world population in Toronto who have no interest in assimilating or welcoming outsiders in.
A lot of anti-American Canadians (built on jelousy and ignorance). White southerners would not be very welcome in Toronto.
I hope the political divide in the U.S. is not your main motivator for looking at Canada/Toronto. If so, you will be moving for the wrong reasons. Canada (especially Toronto) is no utopia.
If you absolutely want to move up here, look at mid-size cities in Southern Ontario (Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo, London, Windsor). But make sure you have a job lined up first.
I would stay in the south, check out Nashville. Strong economy, great city and you will be amongst your own people (southerners).
This is one of the most balanced portrayals of the life in Toronto I have ever read. Good job Toronto99 !!
Toronto is a great city - very diverse, multicultural and very safe... Parks and green space abound and it is a city chalk full of ravines. Its a big city so lots to do with the kids and has great markets and interesting nabe's - lots of festivals, live theatre and other cultural amenities museums, aquarium, theme parks u name it- it would be hard to get bored..
Now winters can suck plain and simple...Much colder than what you'd be used to but four seasons can also be enjoyable, for instance taking the kids toboganning/skiing etc... Affordability of housing could be an issue especially if you want to live in a house and as others have said you may have to move out of the city and commute.. Apartment living is an option but for a small family not necessarily optimal but doable - my parents raised two kids in an apt and honestly it really isn't all that bad.. You can look at the general real estate avail by simply doing a google search or mls.ca, rentals try viewit.ca
If you work in the city close to a subway than a car isn't necessarily necessary if you can find a place close to a subway.. Yes they are busy no doubt but don't listen to rubbish comments about living in a 3rd world city riding with others on our PT - veiled racism. Having said that a small family and car seem to go hand in hand for Costco trips and just taking the family on a road trip to say Niagara Falls or strawberry picking Insurance is expensive but highly variable, not everyone is an 18 year old male driver.. I am 38 and pay 1700 dollars a year for full coverage and live smack DT so pricey yes but like you im a professional so it isn't unnafordable for me.
Whatever you do, don't listen to these kids in here saying that most Torontonians are anti-american - their world is living on the internet and believing sensationalism.. Most Torontonians and Canadians love Americans.. I work at the airport and have a few American colleagues and not one complained about this nonsense.
Take the family up for vacation this summer and get a feel for the city - it would be a big decision so make it an informed one.
There are a few Canadians that seem to have negative views of Americans and the US. I personally know several people who always have something negative to say. Some of this comes from biased media coverage, some based on government (not people) actions, and some from rooted motivations to differentiate ourselves from the giant next door.
On the flip side, there are Americans who have an very distorted, ignorant view of Canada as well (at least for those who have had Canada on their radar). Some have a unrealistic, utopian view of the country that is not realistic. Some think it is a slow, socialist country that is only on the map because the US let's it exist. Again, silly thoughts driven by media and lack of first hand knowledge.
As a Canadian living in the US, I've had to contend with people that have conflicting views from time to time. That being said, I think it's a small minority of both populations that have such negative or extreme views. The majority of people don't have anything against Americans or Canadians and like both countries. At the end of the day, we are siblings countries and more similar than we are different. For the most part, the relationship between both countries is very positive and any banter is not serious. You could encounter people who might have ignorant views of the US or the South but it should not be a factor in terms of deciding to move. The anti-this or that is just not serious enough.
Moving to Canada from North Carolina will be like moving to a Blue state politically (and almost all big cities in the US are Blue from what I recall). People will be more progressive in terms of accepting/tolerant of new social views and less religious & more anti-war on average. Canadians are also ok with higher taxes and a bigger role of the government to provide services as part of the norm (i.e. spreading the wealth more). Socially, people will also more reserved and less open to chatting with strangers compared to the South. Most people will already have established social circles but will be polite and friendly if approached. Furthermore, in my experience living in both countries, Canadians are a bit more laid back and not as politically charged or in your face about issues like in the US. Canada seems to gravitate more towards peace and stability as opposed to the "getting ahead" mantra in the US.
Last edited by johnathanc; 07-17-2014 at 08:28 AM..
Moving to Canada from North Carolina will be like moving to a Blue state politically (and almost all big cities in the US are Blue from what I recall). People will be more progressive in terms of accepting/tolerant of new social views and less religious & more anti-war on average. Canadians are also ok with higher taxes and a bigger role of the government to provide services as part of the norm (i.e. spreading the wealth more). Socially, people will also more reserved and less open to chatting with strangers compared to the South. Most people will already have established social circles but will be polite and friendly if approached. Furthermore, in my experience living in both countries, Canadians are a bit more laid back and not as politically charged or in your face about issues like in the US. Canada seems to gravitate more towards peace and stability as opposed to the "getting ahead" mantra in the US.
My wife and I live in Cary, NC with our 2 y/o son. I work as a manufacturing engineer. Cary a good place to raise a family, ranked highly. etc. but after 5 years of living here, we are looking for a change.
Why are you looking for a change. As other posters allude to, Cary is either a suburban utopia or hell or somewhere in between depending on your preferences. Parks with climbing boulders, lakes, Umstead, restaraunts, shopping, good schools... traffic, McMansions, conservative southern culture, malls... what do you want to change. Is your decision city driven or job driven?
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Insurance is expensive but highly variable, not everyone is an 18 year old male driver.. I am 38 and pay 1700 dollars a year for full coverage and live smack DT so pricey yes but like you im a professional so it isn't unnafordable for me.
