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You've been pretty quick to jump on things moveagain. I remember when you quickly were down on the Pan Am games because it appeared hotel occupancy levels were lower than the previous year. In Feb 2016 Tourism Toronto releases stats that show visitor numbers/visitors spend for Toronto broke all previous records in 2015. There were many in these forums who recommended you hold off judgement. I think this shows that was good advice.
You've also complained about Pride because its too 'noisy' late at night for you living DT. This event brings in hundreds of millions of dollars to the local economy and is one of the largest events of its kind in the world. Buy some Mack's earplugs, they're great!
As for UP.. Its early. I'm not saying great decisions were made and hindsight is always 20/20 and i'm all for accountability. Someone should answer to the decisions made but Bottom line is we have UP so lets see if ridership will go up and in the end if it will be a net benefit to the city/region. Its only been operational for 1 year. Why not wait a few years to see if in the end it was or was not worth it. UP isn't going anywhere.
Ok, lets just agree to disagree on those things
PanAm : I still dont think it is a financial success, and there still hasn't been any official release of figures is a pretty suspicious indication - its overspending early on led to a revised budget that was much higher than the original one, and in the end they congratulated themselves with million $ of bonuses because they spent slightly less than the revised budget. Sure the Pan Am contributed to the tourism of 2015, but if I remember correctly it wasn't a big increase during those weeks, and I doubt it would have such a huge impact on the 2015 results, instead, what drove the big increase is the weak canadian dollar that both stopped Canadians from traveling overseas - so many of them came to Toronto instead - and attracted foreign travelers to come
Pride: I personally don't have a problem with the noise, as I am a sound sleeper and can fall asleep within minutes, regardless of what goes on outside, but my parents were visiting and staying with me last time, which was what got me thinking about the noise issue, I also have other elderly people and neighbors with little kids in my building complaining about it - I have nothing against anybody celebrating anything, but I would like to see some consideration for others.
UP: I dont want to see it fail, my tax dollar went in, and most likely will continue going in for years to come, but I just knew from the beginning that $30 ticket was going to it to nowhere but where they are today. What they are doing now is an improvement, but won't be enough to reach the goal to break even, and I am as sure as last year when they announced the original pricing plan. I actually will take it next month for a business trip - like I said, I am the only one in my company replacing taxi with UP for trip to airport - and I have a pretty good idea of what to expect: likely an occupancy of 30% instead of less than 10% that I had experienced multiple times last year, optimisticly
Last edited by moveagain; 03-12-2016 at 01:22 PM..
Ok, lets just agree to disagree on those things
PanAm : I still dont think it is a financial success, and there still hasn't been any official release of figures is a pretty suspicious indication - its overspending early on led to a revised budget that was much higher than the original one, and in the end they congratulated themselves with million $ of bonuses because they spent slightly less than the revised budget. Sure the Pan Am contributed to the tourism of 2015, but if I remember correctly it wasn't a big increase during those weeks, and I doubt it would have such a huge impact on the 2015 results, instead, what drove the big increase is the weak canadian dollar that both stopped Canadians from traveling overseas - so many of them came to Toronto instead - and attracted foreign travelers to come
Actually I largely agree, Pan Am isn't the biggest factor in Toronto's strong growth in tourism/visitation last year. There were other factors at play. Lower Cad is one and also Toronto's name is getting out there. I just don't think we should shy away from events that will broaden the appeal of the city. Spending money soundly is important, but sometimes an investment isn't always the bottom line. There are intangibles. Toronto is big enough a city to absorb such a games. The city will be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
Pride: I personally don't have a problem with the noise, as I am a sound sleeper and can fall asleep within minutes, regardless of what goes on outside, but my parents were visiting and staying with me last time, which was what got me thinking about the noise issue, I also have other elderly people and neighbors with little kids in my building complaining about it - I have nothing against anybody celebrating anything, but I would like to see some consideration for others.
I can't have a lot of sympathy. DT T.O is the place where large scale events take place. I stick by what I said. We have to look at what these events bring. I don't want Toronto to be seen as a place for a bunch of ninnies. If you don't like it - move to the burbs. Its very quiet and you have plenty o options. The ninnies in this city have already done a number to the impressive club/party atmosphere of the entertainment district which is but a shell of what it used to be. Lets not become allergic to fun and assume everyone is a ninnie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
UP: I dont want to see it fail, my tax dollar went in, and most likely will continue going in for years to come, but I just knew from the beginning that $30 ticket was going to it to nowhere but where they are today. What they are doing now is an improvement, but won't be enough to reach the goal to break even, and I am as sure as last year when they announced the original pricing plan. I actually will take it next month for a business trip - like I said, I am the only one in my company replacing taxi with UP for trip to airport - and I have a pretty good idea of what to expect: likely an occupancy of 30% instead of less than 10% that I had experienced multiple times last year, optimisticly
I personally would pay 27 bucks CAD to take a comfortable and clean train into any city on my travels. That said, not everyone would and most wouldn't. Check.. As for ridership numbers with the reduction -who knows. Lets wait and see.. I think the jury is still out on this one.
I personally would pay 27 bucks CAD to take a comfortable and clean train into any city on my travels. That said, not everyone would and most wouldn't. Check.. As for ridership numbers with the reduction -who knows. Lets wait and see.. I think the jury is still out on this one.
It doesn't actually take you to "any city". There are only 3 other stops, plus the airport. To me, it's not worth the $27, compared to $3 if you just take the TTC. It'll take you a lot longer...but if you're flying out, wouldn't you plan ahead? I guess it depends how frugal you are. I can see how it's worth it to some, but it's definitely an extremely pricey ride. Depending on your location, if you split the bill with another person, it might even be cheaper for you to just take an Uber.
If you have a Presto Card though, I read that they'll drop it to half the price. I'm not sure when it'll take in effect though.
It doesn't actually take you to "any city". There are only 3 other stops, plus the airport. To me, it's not worth the $27, compared to $3 if you just take the TTC. It'll take you a lot longer...but if you're flying out, wouldn't you plan ahead? I guess it depends how frugal you are. I can see how it's worth it to some, but it's definitely an extremely pricey ride. Depending on your location, if you split the bill with another person, it might even be cheaper for you to just take an Uber.
If you have a Presto Card though, I read that they'll drop it to half the price. I'm not sure when it'll take in effect though.
you didn't read it right. The price is 12$ without presto and 9$ with. At $9, it is really a no brainer. I don't really desperately need to save that $6, equivalent to what, a subway sandwich? And I don't think anyone who just take a flight is really in need of that $6, considering they most likely throw way more money in endless coffee and expensive foodcourt lunch every day.
you didn't read it right. The price is 12$ without presto and 9$ with. At $9, it is really a no brainer. I don't really desperately need to save that $6, equivalent to what, a subway sandwich? And I don't think anyone who just take a flight is really in need of that $6, considering they most likely throw way more money in endless coffee and expensive foodcourt lunch every day.
Ah, you're right. I guess they had recently dropped it. My coworker used it just this past December and she's the one who told me it's almost $30.
Despite the increased ridership, Metrolinx doesn't believe the cost of the UP Express can be recovered from rider fares. In fact, current ridership and fare levels could result in a $20 million annual shortfall. That makes it all but inevitable that the service will ultimately be subsidized with tax dollars.
"The provincial government subsidized passengers on the troubled Union Pearson Express last year at a rate of $52.26 per ride.
The astounding sum, which far exceeds the subsidy received by other Toronto-area public transit projects, was revealed in an annual report that came before the Metrolinx board Tuesday."
I would have said 'told you so' but I would have been wrong, since although I knew it was going to be bad, I just had no idea it would be this bad... the subsidy of $52 per ride is probably one of the biggest jokes
Oh, well, at least Toronto is one step closer to becoming a world-class city! world class of wasting tax that is....
"The provincial government subsidized passengers on the troubled Union Pearson Express last year at a rate of $52.26 per ride.
The astounding sum, which far exceeds the subsidy received by other Toronto-area public transit projects, was revealed in an annual report that came before the Metrolinx board Tuesday."
I would have said 'told you so' but I would have been wrong, since although I knew it was going to be bad, I just had no idea it would be this bad... the subsidy of $52 per ride is probably one of the biggest jokes
Oh, well, at least Toronto is one step closer to becoming a world-class city! world class of wasting tax that is....
So how would you propose handling the situation, given that it is already built and you cannot just dismantle it. On the one hand, TTC riders and the general public were kicking and screaming that the former $27.50 was too expensive and want it reduced to "TTC fares" (aka a $3 dollar premium express train), and on the other hand the province and the public (like you) constantly demands that the service cover all of its own operating expenses (and better yet, make a profit!).
Also, those subsidy numbers quoted in your report is nearly 1 year old. The new service at $12 per ride is almost filling at 100% passenger capacity on a daily basis, with a large majority being TTC and GO riders. So many Torontonians have been taking advantage of the service, along with a large number of visitors from Canada and abroad. The service runs every 15 min, from 530 am to 1:30 am (even longer than regular TTC subway), and it's been rated as having very good customer service and on-time consistency, so what exactly are you complaining about?
100% capacity on a daily basis? What parallel universe are you living in? I just took it a month ago and it was 30% at the most, same as what has been reported
"The provincial government subsidized passengers on the troubled Union Pearson Express last year at a rate of $52.26 per ride.
The astounding sum, which far exceeds the subsidy received by other Toronto-area public transit projects, was revealed in an annual report that came before the Metrolinx board Tuesday."
I would have said 'told you so' but I would have been wrong, since although I knew it was going to be bad, I just had no idea it would be this bad... the subsidy of $52 per ride is probably one of the biggest jokes
Oh, well, at least Toronto is one step closer to becoming a world-class city! world class of wasting tax that is....
The seemingly high subsidy is due to low ridership in the first few months due to the wrong pricing. The math is simple, the lower the ridership, the higher "subsidy per rider" is.
The problem is not about building the UP link, it is about the failure of attracting sufficient riders, which Metrolinx didn't exactly do a great job. Even the signage at the airport is not great.
The whole line cost less than 500 million, and compared with the 3.1 billion for our proposed one stop Scarborough subway, it is a steal.
That's not to say the high subsidy is acceptable. Metrolinx should advertise better in attracting more passengers, and it should also look at reducing its costs. For example, I wouldn't mind if there are 3 trains per hour instead of 4. I am optimistic that things will improve and I still think it is a good and necessary investment (far better than building subways in Scarborough, Vaughan or Richmond Hill).
Additionally, don't get so worked up on public transit subsidy. You would be surprised by how much each driver is subsidized per year. They don't pay close to the full cost for driving.
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