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I was an "adopted" Franco-Ontarian for a fairly long period of my life and many of my relatives still are, and my wife is 100% Franco-Ontarian (though she has now lived in Quebec for as long as she did in Ontario).
My view was always that Franco-Ontarians should have their own university (like the Acadians do) but I find that placing this university in the Toronto area is an idiotic move.
The Ontario francophone community in its historic bastions (the east and the northeast) is already having trouble maintaining itself so I think the interests of the community would be better served by shoring up educational options in those areas as opposed to trying to "pioneer" new francophone territory in Toronto - where this effort is basically doomed to fail, for all sorts of reasons.
So yes to a Franco-Ontarian university. It was about time. But it should have been built in Ottawa. Or maybe Sudbury.
The bilingual University of Ottawa is not really doing its job satisfactorily for the Franco-Ontarian (FO) community. Anyone from that community who is not subservient to the institution for some reason (and a large proportion of the FO leadership actually) and who can speak freely will tell you this.
The percentage of students who are francophone has gone down from close to 70% in the 60s and 70s to between a quarter and a third today.
Many degree programs are advertised in Quebec, across Canada and even in the global francophonie as being offered all in French but as you move forward in your studies and fully committed to the program it's very common for you to be surprised with certain mandatory courses offered only in English, or French and English groups merged into an English only class because, of course, "all of the francophones speak English anyway".
This is dismissed by the university who says that they're doing francophones a favour by exposing them to English but if you are a Franco-Ontarian generally speaking you aren't lacking in exposure in English. It's probably your French you need to shore up.
The bilingual University of Ottawa is not really doing its job satisfactorily for the Franco-Ontarian (FO) community. Anyone from that community who is not subservient to the institution for some reason (and a large proportion of the FO leadership actually) and who can speak freely will tell you this.
This is dismissed by the university who says that they're doing francophones a favour by exposing them to English but if you are a Franco-Ontarian generally speaking you aren't lacking in exposure in English. It's probably your French you need to shore up.
That's very mean and not fair of UDO. Anglophones are always very creative when they have to find arguments why only English is offered. Of course, Franco-Ontarians will not need extra lessons in English, they are more than enough exposed to English and all people from the francophone should be offered real full French programs.
The Gatineau and Outaouais region was historically very underdeveloped in terms of public institutions like universities, colleges, hospitals, etc. This is both the fault of the Quebec government and also of locals themselves IMO who generally had the attitude that this region was just as well to piggyback on Ottawa for a whole bunch of stuff. Even the civil law school for the Outaouais is located at the U of Ottawa - a holdover from this era. It costs 10-12,000 dollars a year to go there (higher Ontario tuition fees for a law degree to practice only in Quebec!) whereas if the law school was on the Gatineau side it would cost 3500.
So yes a city like Sherbrooke for example which has a significantly smaller population has a much more comprehensive university with medicine, engineering, law, etc. (and also more complete services in other areas as well).
There are still some people here who say that they'd still rather have access to what there is in Ottawa (which is often of a high quality) as opposed to having something on this side of the river that is going to be second-rate.
However, over the past 20-30 years people have started to see the limitations of depending on Ottawa for so much, and there are lots of efforts to try and build more of our own institutions. (Some people in Ottawa also aren't always keen on seeing our faces there all the time - though we do pay our way over there.)
The problems in health care are well known but sticking with education but still related to health care we are finally getting a satellite medical school here in about 2 years. This will help address our doctor shortage relative to Ottawa.
One of the pressure points on the education front is the growing difference between tuition in Ontario versus Quebec. Our young people are often caught between paying 2 or 3 three times as much in Ottawa, or leaving for Montreal, Sherbrooke or Quebec City (and paying to live there, away from their parents), whereas if we had full programs here in Gatineau they could save by living at home and pay the lower Quebec tuition rates.
I was an "adopted" Franco-Ontarian for a fairly long period of my life and many of my relatives still are, and my wife is 100% Franco-Ontarian (though she has now lived in Quebec for as long as she did in Ontario).
My view was always that Franco-Ontarians should have their own university (like the Acadians do) but I find that placing this university in the Toronto area is an idiotic move.
The Ontario francophone community in its historic bastions (the east and the northeast) is already having trouble maintaining itself so I think the interests of the community would be better served by shoring up educational options in those areas as opposed to trying to "pioneer" new francophone territory in Toronto - where this effort is basically doomed to fail, for all sorts of reasons.
So yes to a Franco-Ontarian university. It was about time. But it should have been built in Ottawa. Or maybe Sudbury.
Factor that Toronto is the aviation/transit hub of not just Ontario but the country. There is no city with as much flight connectivity between it and the rest of Canada than Toronto - that is even more so the case within Ontario. It may make more sense to place a university in a city with the most transit connections - Busiest airport in the country/Province, busiest transportation facility (Union) in the country/Province etc - everything in Ontario transit wise is anchored in Toronto..
Students would probably also prefer the amenities of a big city as opposed to Sudbury or even Ottawa. Ottawa has a lot of flights - between Toronto and Montreal... Heck if you want to fly to France or other French countries, Toronto is most the connected to the French world in the country (outside YUL of course), so I think there is a lot of hub sense to place this university in T.O.. With the introduction of Primera Airlines coming this summer to Toronto Pearson - there are more flights to Paris from Toronto than ever before. No less than 4 airlines now serve France from Toronto - Air Canada, Air France, Air Transat and Primera Air - try competing with that Sudbury, Timmins or Ottawa lol
Not to be overlooked is year round scheduled service to Brussels with Brussels airlines.. So many amazing opportunities to hop on a plane and practice your French and learn about new French cultures right from your city of study... The global French connections are limitless from Toronto.
The Gatineau and Outaouais region was historically very underdeveloped in terms of public institutions like universities, colleges, hospitals, etc. This is both the fault of the Quebec government and also of locals themselves IMO who generally had the attitude that this region was just as well to piggyback on Ottawa for a whole bunch of stuff. Even the civil law school for the Outaouais is located at the U of Ottawa - a holdover from this era. It costs 10-12,000 dollars a year to go there (higher Ontario tuition fees for a law degree to practice only in Quebec!) whereas if the law school was on the Gatineau side it would cost 3500.
So yes a city like Sherbrooke for example which has a significantly smaller population has a much more comprehensive university with medicine, engineering, law, etc. (and also more complete services in other areas as well).
There are still some people here who say that they'd still rather have access to what there is in Ottawa (which is often of a high quality) as opposed to having something on this side of the river that is going to be second-rate.
However, over the past 20-30 years people have started to see the limitations of depending on Ottawa for so much, and there are lots of efforts to try and build more of our own institutions. (Some people in Ottawa also aren't always keen on seeing our faces there all the time - though we do pay our way over there.)
The problems in health care are well known but sticking with education but still related to health care we are finally getting a satellite medical school here in about 2 years. This will help address our doctor shortage relative to Ottawa.
One of the pressure points on the education front is the growing difference between tuition in Ontario versus Quebec. Our young people are often caught between paying 2 or 3 three times as much in Ottawa, or leaving for Montreal, Sherbrooke or Quebec City (and paying to live there, away from their parents), whereas if we had full programs here in Gatineau they could save by living at home and pay the lower Quebec tuition rates.
Is this satellite campus, the extraregional campus of McGill? Will it be in English?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
Factor that Toronto is the aviation/transit hub of not just Ontario but the country. There is no city with as much flight connectivity between it and the rest of Canada than Toronto - that is even more so the case within Ontario. It may make more sense to place a university in a city with the most transit connections - Busiest airport in the country/Province, busiest transportation facility (Union) in the country/Province etc - everything in Ontario transit wise is anchored in Toronto..
Students would probably also prefer the amenities of a big city as opposed to Sudbury or even Ottawa. Ottawa has a lot of flights - between Toronto and Montreal... Heck if you want to fly to France or other French countries, Toronto is most the connected to the French world (outside YUL of course), so I think there is a lot of hub sense to place this university in T.O.. With the introduction of Primera Airlines coming this summer to Toronto Pearson - there are more flights to Paris from Toronto than ever before. No less than 4 airlines now serve France from Toronto - Air Canada, Air France, Air Transat and Primera Air - try competing with that Sudbury, Timmins or Ottawa lol
I don't see things in as fatalistic terms as y'all do. I think if the university attracts a variety of French students from all walks of life and from inside the Province, the country and internationally it will bring French students together in an environment that is incredibly diverse. They can actually share their culture with the people of Toronto who have always been welcoming to different people. French people from Quebec, Africa and Europe would be no different. Just like our Jamaicans, Indians, Flips, Chinese, Portuguese, hispanics etc etc etc - we will love them and accept them. I think this university will attract many from Toronto who want to learn and absorb the French language and various French cultures. I mean, Ottawa is right across the border from Quebec - they have limitless opportunities - just like cross the bridge - duh! However the thought of bringing French into a more prominent role in our largest and most diverse city connected to not just Quebec but the world seems very appealing. Whoever factored Toronto as the lead city was definitely visionary and sees the big picture.
So this doomed to failure stuff is over the tops chum de gars.. Stop being so negative and living in the past.. Let us look to the future with open eyes and positive thoughts about what this marriage of language and cultures will bring. I mean god - more people live in my city block in Etobicoke than Sudbury zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by fusion2; 05-11-2018 at 08:23 PM..
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