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My point exactly, and if I do decide to sell in 5 or 10 years, that's right, resale value. Yea, I know the 60's hot rods worth a fortune, I'm talking real world DD's with 50 to 100k and 5 to 10 years on them, most of these domestics aren't worth squat. The Toyota's hold enough resale to give you a chance at a trade in that will let you easily get back in a new car without being upside down.
We really need to parse this argument into New vs. Used.
10 year old cars? Yeah, I'd expect better quality from the Toyota....but if you are talking new then it will depend on the class of vehicle and the domestics should be quite competitive.
So, 10 years from now...when trying to re-sell a newly purchased Toyota I would not be surprised to see that re-sale gap close as well.
We really need to parse this argument into New vs. Used.
10 year old cars? Yeah, I'd expect better quality from the Toyota....but if you are talking new then it will depend on the class of vehicle and the domestics should be quite competitive.
So, 10 years from now...when trying to re-sell a newly purchased Toyota I would not be surprised to see that re-sale gap close as well.
It's already closing for recent model years, at least for some Fords.
Additionally, a lot of the quality surveys hold all cars to the measure of how many "problems" they have. It's not as hard to have few problems with a car that has manual windows, no sun roof, no heated seats etc etc etc.
Toyota in particular has offered a lot more in terms of features in moving from the role of inexpensive reliable transportation to mid range on up where they are today. New models, more options, more features and even keeping quality static you are going to have more problems.
They still make many fine vehicles but the old blanket statement that they are "better" than various domestic models is no longer true....and personally I'm not willing to pay a premium for "higher quality" when it's based upon older vehicles.
Quite true. The smallest Toyotas like the Yaris, xD, and xB invariably do very well in my survey. Same with Honda, where the Fit fares the best.
The oddity is the Prius. Very complex, but also very few problems reported:
When I see GM, Ford, and Chrysler lots full of used 3-6 year old Corrollas and Camrys I might start believing Toyota owners are switching.
Haven't seen that yet.
In general, you will always find a couple of Hondas and Toyotas on domestuc USED car lots. They generally sell quickly at a higher than average margin. The GM used car managers are always looking for low mileage Japane3se vehicles to fill out their lot.
You don't see as many domestic sedans on Toyota and Honda lots as many of their customers will NOT buy a Ford, Chrysler, or Chevrolet.
Well that's my point, I bought a 08 tundra on 7/08 for a steal of a deal. Folks that bought a year earlier payed 1,000's more. When I was looking for my truck gas was over 4$'s a gallon, a recession or depression was on the horizon, all the car lots were loaded with trucks with V8's.
Imagine my surprise when I went to the Dodge dealer to trade in my 97 Dodge for a new one and they acted like I was gona pay close to MSRP. Chevy didn't seem to get it nor Nissan. I didn't look at ford's(it's a personal thang as I wasn't treated to well by the local Ford dealer and don't care to do business with them).
My point being that Toyota knew the business environment and knew to dump there trucks to get there inventory corrected, they closed there truck line in San Antonio, but kept all there workers on the payroll doing civic work in the community and training for when the line started back up.
Not Chevy and Dodge, they held there line untill the market crashed and they faced bankruptcy waiting for billions and billions and tens of billions of tax payer dollars, then going back for tens of billions of more dollars.
Toyota has in the mean time weathered the recession/depression survived a massive BS government recall(remember that, it seems to have gone away/ Remember folks you have to press the brake pedal to stop a car not that pedal to the right, that's the gas pedal it makes the car go faster)and there still #1 with no government bailout money.
When I get in my Toyota Tundra I just chuckle at the thought that for a few thousand more dollars I could be driving in a Chevy or a Dodge.
Yeah, I know. I had to replace my water pump about 5 years ago. The truck was only 20 years old at the time.
And I was daily driving this Ford at 36 years old (the car) with the original engine and transmission:
If we want to be anecdotal, I can go there. My '96 Ford Ranger Splash, bght new with 5 miles on it, never had a single problem the entire time I owned it, neither did the '99 SVT Contour I replaced it with. my '02 PT Cruiser was sold at 5 years old having never had a single problem (and I shoould have kept it, but I needed something larger to tow with). So for me, buying a new American car has meant never needing repairs or time spent at the dealership past the initial sale.
I had a 97 Dodge Ram for 11 years and 165,000 miles that I really had little problems with, course if I had wanted to trade 5 years down the line I would have taken a whoppin. Dodge wanted MSRP or close to it when I wanted out, Crazy, I just wanted a 4 door half ton auto trans truck. I have no loyality to any brand vehicle, Pull wrenches for a living and know my way around a vehicle as good as most dealer mechanics if not better. A lot has to do with how you treat a vehicle, that's where I tell ya my DD catches he!! it ain't no joke. My DD gets horrible treatment, heavy stop and go pot hole infested in 99+ heat july/aug/sept with the AC blowing wide open mixed with stretches of high speed highway miles mixed with Hurricane evacuations, crazy drivers, flying rocks, no perfect glass in my DD no lite sunday afternoon drives, we watch as people buy different vehicles and drive them to work, believe what you want, me and a lot of others know what does and doesn't last in the real world.
Well that's my point, I bought a 08 tundra on 7/08 for a steal of a deal. Folks that bought a year earlier payed 1,000's more. When I was looking for my truck gas was over 4$'s a gallon, a recession or depression was on the horizon, all the car lots were loaded with trucks with V8's.
Imagine my surprise when I went to the Dodge dealer to trade in my 97 Dodge for a new one and they acted like I was gona pay close to MSRP. Chevy didn't seem to get it nor Nissan. I didn't look at ford's(it's a personal thang as I wasn't treated to well by the local Ford dealer and don't care to do business with them).
My point being that Toyota knew the business environment and knew to dump there trucks to get there inventory corrected, they closed there truck line in San Antonio, but kept all there workers on the payroll doing civic work in the community and training for when the line started back up.
Not Chevy and Dodge, they held there line untill the market crashed and they faced bankruptcy waiting for billions and billions and tens of billions of tax payer dollars, then going back for tens of billions of more dollars.
Toyota has in the mean time weathered the recession/depression survived a massive BS government recall(remember that, it seems to have gone away/ Remember folks you have to press the brake pedal to stop a car not that pedal to the right, that's the gas pedal it makes the car go faster)and there still #1 with no government bailout money.
When I get in my Toyota Tundra I just chuckle at the thought that for a few thousand more dollars I could be driving in a Chevy or a Dodge.
The reason Toyota was wheeling and dealing on the Tundra was do to the fact that they were selling about as well as ice cream cones to Eskimo's even without the gas prices. Toyota put a massive effort into the Tundra and spent billions on the marketing campaign and bringing it to market. They expected to sell 200k+ units a year and hoped to move up to 20-25% of market share.
The 2007's sold well (but not to expectation), but were dogged with a couple costly recalls such as the cam shaft failures which only affected a handful of trucks and the larger recall for the propellor shafts in the 4x4 system. The 2007 Tundra was slammed as being one of the least reliable full size pickups with a lot of issues reported, mainly around the 4x4 system.
2008 saw Tundra sales fall by over 40%. This is as much to do with the truck as it was with the fuel as sales by Ford and GM were only down about 25%. 2009 saw the volume shrink even further and were down another 40% compared to 20% drops at Ford and GM. Overall the new Tundra was initially a success but has lost market share every year.
The blame isn't entirely on the truck as Toyota has even admitted that they lacked the understanding of how truck buyers shop and never kept enough trucks in stock with the varying packages and made some odd choices in terms of bundling equipment.
So, the Tundra's not a bad truck as the issues were fixed with the 2008 models going forward, but the reason Toyota was wheeling and dealing on them (and still is) is that no one is buying them and they currently have a plant running at 40% capacity. The Tundra is claimed by Toyota itself to be one of their biggest failures.
Well Toyota's bad luck has worked out well for me. The first generation Tundra's in the parking lot at where I work have had real good luck with there trucks. I suspect I'll have pretty good luck with my 08. Heck I've had it for 2 years and could sell it for about what I paid for it, say it aint so.
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