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No, they are both GM vehicles. However, on every Lexus made you can pop the hood/open the driver's door and look at the VIN plate/door sticker and it will say manufactured by Toyota. You will not see "Manufactured by Chevrolet" under the hood of any Cadillac. So while a flame bait comment, his statement is quite true. Several Lexus vehicles are sold as Toyota branded cars in other parts of the world, and they all were up until a few years ago when the Lexus brand was introduced in Japan.
Toyota is the parent company like GM is the parent company of GM. You are bringing up some stickers to make a point? Seriously?
There are no Lexus vehicles sold as Toyota's anywhere after Lexus was introduced in Japan in 2006. Even then they were Lexus that were sold as Toyota's in Japan due to no dealer network.
Even a car like a Toyota Crown is a fantastic Luxury car, like a Nissan Fuga or Honda Legend.
It is clear that Lexus vehicles no matter what stickers are on them are some of the best built vehicles around from the boring ES to the off roaders like the LX to their hybrids and now sport models. What the LS and SC did in the early 1990s were unheard of. While some early models were obvious rebadges TODAY that is not the case.
I think the critique holds somewhat true even with Lexus becoming its own global brand. The volume cars for Lexus have direct Toyota counterparts and share virtually every piece of hardware. The only Cadillac that shares all of its major components with a Chevy is the Escalade, the rest are on unique platforms and have unique powertrains, though some of the engines are now similar as the 3.6L has become a corporate engine (though not the same version as is used in the Cadillacs) and the LSA in the CTS-V shares roots with the LS9 in the ZR1.
FWIW, the average Cadillac has less in common with a Chevy than the average Lexus does with a Toyota. It doesn't mean Lexus doesn't make great cars, it just means that a decent chunk of their portfolio (and all the volume models) have extensive roots with regular Toyotas.
I think the critique holds somewhat true even with Lexus becoming its own global brand. The volume cars for Lexus have direct Toyota counterparts and share virtually every piece of hardware. The only Cadillac that shares all of its major components with a Chevy is the Escalade, the rest are on unique platforms and have unique powertrains, though some of the engines are now similar as the 3.6L has become a corporate engine (though not the same version as is used in the Cadillacs) and the LSA in the CTS-V shares roots with the LS9 in the ZR1.
FWIW, the average Cadillac has less in common with a Chevy than the average Lexus does with a Toyota. It doesn't mean Lexus doesn't make great cars, it just means that a decent chunk of their portfolio (and all the volume models) have extensive roots with regular Toyotas.
You seem to assume this. Its not a fair comparison since Cadillac has such a limited lineup.
CTS
DTS
STS
SRX
Escalade
vs
CT
ES
HS
IS
GS
LS
LFA
RX
GX
LX
There is nothing wrong with sharing parts, everyone does it and in the future there will only be more of it. Lexus has done a fantastic job differentiating Lexus, otherwise they wouldn't sell and they would not have won countless awards.
Lexus also leads the entire industry with hybrids, something Caddy does not offer (and surely will add in the future).
As for hardware Lexus has tons of its own hardware for example the CTS-V uses a Vette engine (a great engine) but the IS F uses the engine from the Lexus 600h L (another great engine but less powerful).
While Caddy has a much longer and storied history they were stagnant for so long Lexus passed them a long time ago and Caddy is finally getting its act together.
You seem to assume this. Its not a fair comparison since Cadillac has such a limited lineup.
CTS
DTS
STS
SRX
Escalade
vs
CT
ES
HS
IS
GS
LS
LFA
RX
GX
LX
There is nothing wrong with sharing parts, everyone does it and in the future there will only be more of it. Lexus has done a fantastic job differentiating Lexus, otherwise they wouldn't sell and they would not have won countless awards.
Lexus also leads the entire industry with hybrids, something Caddy does not offer (and surely will add in the future).
As for hardware Lexus has tons of its own hardware for example the CTS-V uses a Vette engine (a great engine) but the IS F uses the engine from the Lexus 600h L (another great engine but less powerful).
While Caddy has a much longer and storied history they were stagnant for so long Lexus passed them a long time ago and Caddy is finally getting its act together.
I posted something like what I'm about to post in a similar thread a few months back.
1. Someone, please point out to me what Toyota an ES330 is related to.
2. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an IS250/IS350 is related to.
3. Now, please point out to me what Toyota a GS350/450 is related to.
4. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an LS460 is related to.
The ES has the most relation to any stateside Toyota on the market, and even then, they are grossly different. I worked for Toyota/Lexus, and very few parts are interchangable. It goes beyong the body panels. The Camry is a mass-market sedan designed for maximum cost-effectiveness and profit margins in addition to reliability, miles per gallon, costs per repair, etc. Although the ES is based on a similar chassis to the Camry and the Camry is available with a similar V6 to the ES, the chassis are built in different factories - the ES in Japan, the Camry in the US. The chassis use different manufacturing processes, bracing, materials, etc. in different locations, for the primary reason that the ES is engineered to be substantially quieter and smoother than the Camry. The engines and their mounts are subject to similar changes for the same reason. Their interiors have no interchangable parts. The suspension, tires, and wheels are different for the same reason. They are absolutely, diametrically different vehicles that, at the end of the day, only bear a very minute similarity to one or another.
Same deal as the Panther chassis Fords (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car).
The other Lexus sedans are not related to other US-market Toyotas. They were sold as the Toyota Aristo (GS), Soarer (SC) and Celsior (LS) in Japan because in Japan, Toyota is a respected enough brand to stand on its own. Regardless, the cars were developed as Lexuses, not as Toyotas.
I posted something like what I'm about to post in a similar thread a few months back.
1. Someone, please point out to me what Toyota an ES330 is related to.
2. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an IS250/IS350 is related to.
3. Now, please point out to me what Toyota a GS350/450 is related to.
4. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an LS460 is related to.
The ES has the most relation to any stateside Toyota on the market, and even then, they are grossly different. I worked for Toyota/Lexus, and very few parts are interchangable. It goes beyong the body panels. The Camry is a mass-market sedan designed for maximum cost-effectiveness and profit margins in addition to reliability, miles per gallon, costs per repair, etc. Although the ES is based on a similar chassis to the Camry and the Camry is available with a similar V6 to the ES, the chassis are built in different factories - the ES in Japan, the Camry in the US. The chassis use different manufacturing processes, bracing, materials, etc. in different locations, for the primary reason that the ES is engineered to be substantially quieter and smoother than the Camry. The engines and their mounts are subject to similar changes for the same reason. Their interiors have no interchangable parts. The suspension, tires, and wheels are different for the same reason. They are absolutely, diametrically different vehicles that, at the end of the day, only bear a very minute similarity to one or another.
Same deal as the Panther chassis Fords (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car).
The other Lexus sedans are not related to other US-market Toyotas. They were sold as the Toyota Aristo (GS), Soarer (SC) and Celsior (LS) in Japan because in Japan, Toyota is a respected enough brand to stand on its own. Regardless, the cars were developed as Lexuses, not as Toyotas.
I think the difference comes down to nitpicking over the difference between platform sharing and badge engineering. I think Lexus started out badge engineering, but has moved in the direction of platfrom sharing.
The only reason this comes up is that a lot of people try to differentiate a luxury brand by having unique platforms and drivetrains. Lexus does, but its main products (ES and RX as well as the SUV's) borrow heavily from the Toyota catalog.
At the end of the day there is more Toyota in a Lexus than there is Chevy in a Cadillac, which is where the argument stemmed from.
I posted something like what I'm about to post in a similar thread a few months back.
1. Someone, please point out to me what Toyota an ES330 is related to.
2. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an IS250/IS350 is related to.
3. Now, please point out to me what Toyota a GS350/450 is related to.
4. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an LS460 is related to.
The ES has the most relation to any stateside Toyota on the market, and even then, they are grossly different. I worked for Toyota/Lexus, and very few parts are interchangable. It goes beyong the body panels. The Camry is a mass-market sedan designed for maximum cost-effectiveness and profit margins in addition to reliability, miles per gallon, costs per repair, etc. Although the ES is based on a similar chassis to the Camry and the Camry is available with a similar V6 to the ES, the chassis are built in different factories - the ES in Japan, the Camry in the US. The chassis use different manufacturing processes, bracing, materials, etc. in different locations, for the primary reason that the ES is engineered to be substantially quieter and smoother than the Camry. The engines and their mounts are subject to similar changes for the same reason. Their interiors have no interchangable parts. The suspension, tires, and wheels are different for the same reason. They are absolutely, diametrically different vehicles that, at the end of the day, only bear a very minute similarity to one or another.
Same deal as the Panther chassis Fords (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car).
The other Lexus sedans are not related to other US-market Toyotas. They were sold as the Toyota Aristo (GS), Soarer (SC) and Celsior (LS) in Japan because in Japan, Toyota is a respected enough brand to stand on its own. Regardless, the cars were developed as Lexuses, not as Toyotas.
Toyota is the parent company like GM is the parent company of GM. You are bringing up some stickers to make a point? Seriously?
Yes, I am seriously using the manufacturer's identification stickers as proof, not some random anonymous internet fanboy's opinion.
Quote:
There are no Lexus vehicles sold as Toyota's anywhere after Lexus was introduced in Japan in 2006. Even then they were Lexus that were sold as Toyota's in Japan due to no dealer network.
I'll give you one, the Toyota Landcruiser Prado. I suppose you'll tell me by "no" you meant more then one and you'll expect me to waste time giving you more proof which you will ignore. Those cars like the Aristo, Soarer and Celsior were Toyotas first and then rebadged as Lexus later.
Quote:
Even a car like a Toyota Crown is a fantastic Luxury car, like a Nissan Fuga or Honda Legend.
Okay, what is your point? You know the JDM names of other cars sold in the US under luxury marques.
Quote:
So no, his comment is not true, just flame bait.
It is true. The fact that you call manufactrurer's decals "just some stickers thrown on" is very telling of your unwillingness to face facts. Lexus are Toyota vehicles. They aren't made in on another planet or powered by unicorn farts or pixie dust, they are just well equipped and well optioned Toyotas to the majority of the rest of the world. You getting bent out of shape over it isn't going to change that fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
I posted something like what I'm about to post in a similar thread a few months back.
1. Someone, please point out to me what Toyota an ES330 is related to.
2. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an IS250/IS350 is related to.
3. Now, please point out to me what Toyota a GS350/450 is related to.
4. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an LS460 is related to.
Answers:
1. Toyota Camry
2. Toyota Altezza and Mark X
3. Toyota Aristo and Mark X
4. Toyota Celsior
And as I am sure you are wondering:
What Chevy is the Cadillac CTS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac DTS related to? None, but it is related to the Buick Lucerne
What Chevy is the Cadillac STS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac SRX related to? Its platform is derived from the one under the Equinox and Traverse but it is built in a separate factory with its only true sibling, the SAAB 9-4X
What Chevy is the Cadillac Escalade...well that's an easy one. What vehicle is more maligned on this forum then any other and accused as being a gussied up Tahoe then that one. I suppose to all the people that think the poor selling Mercedes GL and Lexus LX are so much better will never investigate closer to see that it isn't just a Tahoe with chrome. However, I'm sure someone in this thread will tell me paying $10,000 or so more for a Landcruiser with a "L" badge makes much more sense.
I posted something like what I'm about to post in a similar thread a few months back.
1. Someone, please point out to me what Toyota an ES330 is related to.
2. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an IS250/IS350 is related to.
3. Now, please point out to me what Toyota a GS350/450 is related to.
4. Now, please point out to me what Toyota an LS460 is related to.
The ES has the most relation to any stateside Toyota on the market, and even then, they are grossly different. I worked for Toyota/Lexus, and very few parts are interchangable. It goes beyong the body panels. The Camry is a mass-market sedan designed for maximum cost-effectiveness and profit margins in addition to reliability, miles per gallon, costs per repair, etc. Although the ES is based on a similar chassis to the Camry and the Camry is available with a similar V6 to the ES, the chassis are built in different factories - the ES in Japan, the Camry in the US. The chassis use different manufacturing processes, bracing, materials, etc. in different locations, for the primary reason that the ES is engineered to be substantially quieter and smoother than the Camry. The engines and their mounts are subject to similar changes for the same reason. Their interiors have no interchangable parts. The suspension, tires, and wheels are different for the same reason. They are absolutely, diametrically different vehicles that, at the end of the day, only bear a very minute similarity to one or another.
Same deal as the Panther chassis Fords (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car).
The other Lexus sedans are not related to other US-market Toyotas. They were sold as the Toyota Aristo (GS), Soarer (SC) and Celsior (LS) in Japan because in Japan, Toyota is a respected enough brand to stand on its own. Regardless, the cars were developed as Lexuses, not as Toyotas.
GREAT POST! Please educate those with their heads in the sand thinking a Lexus is a gussied up Yaris
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
I think the difference comes down to nitpicking over the difference between platform sharing and badge engineering. I think Lexus started out badge engineering, but has moved in the direction of platfrom sharing.
The only reason this comes up is that a lot of people try to differentiate a luxury brand by having unique platforms and drivetrains. Lexus does, but its main products (ES and RX as well as the SUV's) borrow heavily from the Toyota catalog.
At the end of the day there is more Toyota in a Lexus than there is Chevy in a Cadillac, which is where the argument stemmed from.
That is not true. The LFA for example is a $375,000 exotic that Cadillac cannot and may not ever match. There is more engineering in that vehicle than pretty much all Cadillacs created. Mind you I like Caddy but it is what it is.
What about the XLR? That was Corvette based. What about the Catera? That was a sad rebadged Opel.
Shall I bring up the BLS? A bastard child Saab.
Again I've stated there are some obvious quick rebadge jobs but they quickly got rid of them and have improved the vehicles.
To me many people (I am not directing this to you ) simply lack the open mind toward Lexus and hate it for its success for whatever reason(s) and hold on to some outdated and "oh its just Toyota" non enthusiast views about the brand.
Yes, I am seriously using the manufacturer's identification stickers as proof, not some random anonymous internet fanboy's opinion.
I'll give you one, the Toyota Landcruiser Prado. I suppose you'll tell me by "no" you meant more then one and you'll expect me to waste time giving you more proof which you will ignore. Those cars like the Aristo, Soarer and Celsior were Toyotas first and then rebadged as Lexus later.
Which is why I said most, b/c I know a GM fanboy would bring up the Prado. FYI the Prado aka GX would embarress the Escalade and SRX off-road, it is one of the most trusted and respected off roaders and is more luxurious.
FYI you are wrong about the Aristo, Soarer, Celsior they were not Toyota's first. This is a blatant lie. They were developed as Lexus and sold as Toyotas ONLY in JAPAN as another poster stated b/c the Toyota brand there could stand on its own.
They also were different. The Sorarer offered a 1JZ engine, the Aristo 4 wheel steering, no V-8 and a turbo I-6. So they were different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian
It is true. The fact that you call manufactrurer's decals "just some stickers thrown on" is very telling of your unwillingness to face facts. Lexus are Toyota vehicles. They aren't made in on another planet or powered by unicorn farts or pixie dust, they are just well equipped and well optioned Toyotas to the majority of the rest of the world. You getting bent out of shape over it isn't going to change that fact.
What Chevy is the Cadillac CTS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac DTS related to? None, but it is related to the Buick Lucerne
What Chevy is the Cadillac STS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac SRX related to? Its platform is derived from the one under the Equinox and Traverse but it is built in a separate factory with its only true sibling, the SAAB 9-4X
What Chevy is the Cadillac Escalade...well that's an easy one. What vehicle is more maligned on this forum then any other and accused as being a gussied up Tahoe then that one. I suppose to all the people that think the poor selling Mercedes GL and Lexus LX are so much better will never investigate closer to see that it isn't just a Tahoe with chrome. However, I'm sure someone in this thread will tell me paying $10,000 or so more for a Landcruiser with a "L" badge makes much more sense.
Why are you stuck on the CTS? Its one car for crying out loud. The DTS will be DISCONTINUED. the STS will be DISCONTINUED. the XTS will share platforms with other Buicks and Chevys.
The SRX shares its platform. So b/c its in a different factory it is different? Well the RX is built in a different factory (Japan/Canada) the ES in Japan and the rest of LExus vehicles in Japan.
Please explain the BLS and Catera? Would love to hear your excuse for a rebadged OPEL and Saabalac.
The LX starts at 75k, it is a low volume seller on par with Range Rover, way past the Escalade. It is a true luxurious off roader, not an AWD gussied up Silverado.
1. Toyota Camry
2. Toyota Altezza and Mark X
3. Toyota Aristo and Mark X
4. Toyota Celsior
And as I am sure you are wondering:
What Chevy is the Cadillac CTS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac DTS related to? None, but it is related to the Buick Lucerne
What Chevy is the Cadillac STS related to? None.
What Chevy is the Cadillac SRX related to? Its platform is derived from the one under the Equinox and Traverse but it is built in a separate factory with its only true sibling, the SAAB 9-4X
What Chevy is the Cadillac Escalade...well that's an easy one. What vehicle is more maligned on this forum then any other and accused as being a gussied up Tahoe then that one. I suppose to all the people that think the poor selling Mercedes GL and Lexus LX are so much better will never investigate closer to see that it isn't just a Tahoe with chrome. However, I'm sure someone in this thread will tell me paying $10,000 or so more for a Landcruiser with a "L" badge makes much more sense.
Love it when that happens...
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) simply lack the open mind toward Lexus and hate it for its success for whatever reason(s) and hold on to some outdated and "oh its just Toyota" non enthusiast views about the brand.
