Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
i would skip the high price tag, high battery cost, small interior room and mediocre actual fuel mileage an pick up a hyundai elantra touring or somet other hatchback car for a fraction of the price but with more interior room and maybe even better mileage
You are showing to be so far out of your depth of knowledge. A mcpherson strut suspension system is the same regardless of the manufacturer. Theres very little you can do to change the feeling of it. The biggest changes will always be alignment and tires. If you think a 3, which I drive on a race track weekly (as well as porsches, lotuses, ferraris etc.) is a such a superior sporty feeling your lack of experience versus what you claim to have in knowledge of the subject is saddening.
Is the prius close to one of those porsches or lotuses?? Of course not, different suspension designs. Is it close enough to the 3 when setup properly considering it gets a good 20mpg MORE than the 3 and they are BOTH very similar, in my book, yes. Your amateurish view I dont really care about. I work with engineers on these systems everyday. I am the one that fully understands the results of how they are put together. If you'd like I could run circles around you in that "sporty" 3 in even the biggest prius on a track and then drive home getting 20mpg more and then you can tell me how sporty it felt having your a*@ handed to you by the lowly Prius.
Using your alleged qualifications to bully others doesn't make you an "expert." It is just trying to force your opinion of vehicle design and dynamics down the throat of individuals who disagree.
There is much more to the design of a chassis and suspension in how it handles than just alignment and tires. Sure, the basic componentry and layout is all the same, but the tolerances and nuances in designing and setting them up properly, from the design stage through production, is a little more costly, time consuming, and involved than you seem to give credit to (at least in this post).
Sure, you can buy a car, and alter it's handling and ride characteristics with tweeks to alignment and tire selection. However, those tweeks cannot fully undue the engineering that went into the setup of the suspension (bushing types, compounds, part design, weight, etc etc etc)
Oh you got an MR2? A car known for its handling? Did you hear that a Prius with a good set of tires and an alignment can do everything the MR2 can? Take my word for it...I'm just a random dude on the Internet with a massive ego!
Who ever compared the mid engined almost 1klb less mr2 to a prius smartalec??
A prius and 3 BOTH have half the engine hangin over the front axle and are both tied to the road by strut suspension AND have similar horsepower. The biggest difference being the cvt in the prius. Although the 3 makes up for it by having one of tge most vague and fragile clutches ever put in a mazda. And Id still run circles around you or the other smartalec in that ohh so sporty 3 (that I actually drive almost everyday so I surely know its capabilities more than you) in a current prius, WITH the stock tires even. But thats because in my earlier days this random guy was both coaching and beating guys like marco andretti, travis pastrana, and alexander rossi (current f1 test driver) in real open wheel race cars, not talkin about tearing up the steets in my super high performance wrx ( lol ) or track daying my wicked fast mr2.. lol. Different levels, thats why you guys talk the talk while I walk the walk.
Like the pavement KNOWS whether its a prius, or a mazda, or a ford strut suspension attached to the 130-140 hp thats being delivered to it. Lol.. your inexperience is only eclipsed by your ignorance and closed mindedness regarding vehicle dynamics beyond the most basic and amateurish level...
Using your alleged qualifications to bully others doesn't make you an "expert." It is just trying to force your opinion of vehicle design and dynamics down the throat of individuals who disagree.
There is much more to the design of a chassis and suspension in how it handles than just alignment and tires. Sure, the basic componentry and layout is all the same, but the tolerances and nuances in designing and setting them up properly, from the design stage through production, is a little more costly, time consuming, and involved than you seem to give credit to (at least in this post).
Sure, you can buy a car, and alter it's handling and ride characteristics with tweeks to alignment and tire selection. However, those tweeks cannot fully undue the engineering that went into othe setup of the suspension (bushing types, compounds, part design, weight, etc etc etc)
Of course you are absolutely right in your statement..I know very well, my input is used in many of these designs as a test driver... but my point being that those things you mentioned are NOT worlds apart regarding two cars like a 3 and a prius. They are just SHADES different, NOT leaps. And with the right tires and proper aligment, EVEN closer.... AND the prius is MUCH better in fuel economy.. thats all... If someone is convincing themselves that a 3 is some kind of sports car and actually WORLDS away from similar handling they are just trying to make themselves feel better about being commited to another econobox. I dont have anything against mazdas, or 3s. I use them regularly at work and work for mazda pretty often, but they certainly do NOT have some kind of mystical, huge handling advantage against many other econoboxes.
i would skip the high price tag, high battery cost, small interior room and mediocre actual fuel mileage an pick up a hyundai elantra touring or somet other hatchback car for a fraction of the price but with more interior room and maybe even better mileage
?? Show us the #s
Touring starts at 16k. Will have a sticker closer to the 24k base prius if you want similar equipment, ie. Bluetooth, sat radio, climate control. All specs show touring as having about 6 cubic ft more interior volume, and most owner forums show real fuel mpg of about 27-31, compared to 45-55 mpg for the prius. Those are facts, lookem up, not funny jamacian math..
I'm staying out of this fight, but I just wanted to throw in that I'm pretty sure I have a good idea who LRPct is and I can attest that he's not BS'ing his qualifications or experience. I think everyone could take a chill pill the way this is going; but I thought I would put it out there that he's not being disengenuous over his experience and qualifications. Having a good idea who he is, I think his opinions and observations carry a pretty hefty weight on the topic that is being argued about and I have a good amount of respect for his opinions.
I'm staying out of this fight, but I just wanted to throw in that I'm pretty sure I have a good idea who LRPct is and I can attest that he's not BS'ing his qualifications or experience. I think everyone could take a chill pill the way this is going; but I thought I would put it out there that he's not being disengenuous over his experience and qualifications. Having a good idea who he is, I think his opinions and observations carry a pretty hefty weight on the topic that is being argued about and I have a good amount of respect for his opinions.
Why dont you give him a tongue bath while you're at it! ........J/K. LOL.
He may be all of what both you and him are saying he is. Still doesnt negate the fact that solely changing a Prius's tires and giving it an alignment is going to make it feel similar to other sporty "econoboxes" (as he put it) that are in its class. Maybe his definition of wheel alignment is different from mine and what he's referring to is an alteration to the stock suspension and not a basic wheel alignment in the sense. There's nothing sporty about the car to begin with. I dont know where he's getting this idea that I and a few other people are claiming that the Mazda 3 is some all mighty sports car with "mystical handling advantages" . It does handle quite well for what it is and even better some some actual "sports cars" that I've owned. All I know is that I owned a 06 Mazda 3s and have driven a 2011 Prius. When pushed to the limits both cars felt like night and day in terms of all around performance.
LMAO. One of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Especially coming from a "car expert" such as himself. .
In the first place I never said what you are referring to. I never brought up MR2 relating to a Prius. Be careful before you use such pointed statements. You still never answered my question regarding how many races at Daytona etc. you WON with that "track raced" MR2 that you use as some kind of evidence to compare your knowledge of this subject to that of mine. Plenty of people race on their own for YEARS without ever winning a real wheel to wheel race or ever learning how to PROPERLY handle or tune a car. Places like SCCA and NASA, even Grand AM etc are full of them. Yet they will still use their racing CV as some kind of proof of having a clue while their whole race "career" they wallowed midpack or DFL. OWNING "hot" cars does not give one or show an understanding of how they work or how to properly use them. Neither does languishing midpack in club racing for a few years. Running against top level drivers (ie. F1, INDYCAR, NASCAR, WRC drivers) and WINNING against them most certainly does. It's THOSE types of drivers that can pick up on the so very subtle nuances that ACTUALLY differentiate certain vehicles in an OBJECTIVE, level headed, brand blind manner. The guys that never stood on top of a podium on a regular basis are usually the ones so full of their own ego that they can't see past a badge and don't understand just how close all these different brands and vehicles actually are and how VERY small changes in key areas can make one feel even closer to another than commonly thought by the general auto oblivious public.
Those guys that are not at the level of a pro driver/tester/coach can muddy the waters with their own "expert opinion" because they once barely scratched the surface of the real engineering and practice of it all with their HOBBY.
Not to "bully" with MY opinion or expertise but I was not the one being closed minded, ignorant, and dismissive of another's comments when the hard facts and numbers do not lie about how close pretty much ALL econoboxes really are. That is all.
In the first place I never said what you are referring to. I never brought up MR2 relating to a Prius. Be careful before you use such pointed statements. You still never answered my question regarding how many races at Daytona etc. you WON with that "track raced" MR2 that you use as some kind of evidence to compare your knowledge of this subject to that of mine. Plenty of people race on their own for YEARS without ever winning a real wheel to wheel race or ever learning how to PROPERLY handle or tune a car. Places like SCCA and NASA, even Grand AM etc are full of them. Yet they will still use their racing CV as some kind of proof of having a clue while their whole race "career" they wallowed midpack or DFL. OWNING "hot" cars does not give one or show an understanding of how they work or how to properly use them. Neither does languishing midpack in club racing for a few years. Running against top level drivers (ie. F1, INDYCAR, NASCAR, WRC drivers) and WINNING against them most certainly does. It's THOSE types of drivers that can pick up on the so very subtle nuances that ACTUALLY differentiate certain vehicles in an OBJECTIVE, level headed, brand blind manner. The guys that never stood on top of a podium on a regular basis are usually the ones so full of their own ego that they can't see past a badge and don't understand just how close all these different brands and vehicles actually are and how VERY small changes in key areas can make one feel even closer to another than commonly thought by the general auto oblivious public.
Those guys that are not at the level of a pro driver/tester/coach can muddy the waters with their own "expert opinion" because they once barely scratched the surface of the real engineering and practice of it all with their HOBBY.
Not to "bully" with MY opinion or expertise but I was not the one being closed minded, ignorant, and dismissive of another's comments when the hard facts and numbers do not lie about how close pretty much ALL econoboxes really are. That is all.
If you're so high and mighty in the car racing world to the extent that you've raced with/against/and beaten world class racers, why are you on a non-racing forum arguing with and trying to belittle amateur car enthusiasts such as myself? Bully much? LOL. Moderator cut: Personal attack
Last edited by SOON2BNSURPRISE; 07-31-2012 at 08:28 AM..
Why dont you give him a tongue bath while you're at it! ........J/K. LOL.
He may be all of what both you and him are saying he is. Still doesnt negate the fact that solely changing a Prius's tires and giving it an alignment is going to make it feel similar to other sporty "econoboxes" (as he put it) that are in its class. Maybe his definition of wheel alignment is different from mine and what he's referring to is an alteration to the stock suspension and not a basic wheel alignment in the sense. There's nothing sporty about the car to begin with. I dont know where he's getting this idea that I and a few other people are claiming that the Mazda 3 is some all mighty sports car with "mystical handling advantages" . It does handle quite well for what it is and even better some some actual "sports cars" that I've owned. All I know is that I owned a 06 Mazda 3s and have driven a 2011 Prius. When pushed to the limits both cars felt like night and day in terms of all around performance.
When pushed to the limits both cars felt like night and day in terms of all around performance. REALLY!!? No kidding!!!!???? Tell me something.. You think when I drive the new 458 Challenge car at a place like Laguna Seca or Monticello that the handling is NIGHT AND DAY difference whether on new slicks, or on worn to the cord street tires??? Yes!!! It's about 10-20 seconds slower on the wore out street tires compared to the slicks and feels like it's on ice.. Imagine that!!.. Pretty much the same as low rolling resistance tires. maybe you never learned in that MR2 "racecar" but tires are the BIGGEST influence on handling. THE biggest. Something I learned as a paid test driver for Michelin and BFG.
In all your vast Prius experience have you ever driven one with real tires?? have you ever driven one on a track?? That "better handling than some sports cars" LOL. 3, Have you driven that on a track?? On a good set of new perf tires?? On a worn out set from 100 + laps on a track. Have you tried 5-8 sets of tires on it and given detailed feedback to the engineers including review of 50+ channels of data telemetry??? Have you actually experienced tires on a 3 that with the right driver can actually achieve faster lap times than a spec miata?? Have you experienced the 3 with tires so bad it was actually SLOWER than a perfectly stock Prius around the same track with a pro driver, backed by OBJECTIVE data??
With every word you show me you have less experience and knowledge of the subject than I even first thought.
Night and day difference between semi sporty/perf tires and rock hard rolling resistance tires.. Imagine that!!.. Thanks for the laugh.. If you actually had some REAL miles in all these different types of cars in DIFFERENT circumstances instead of a few miles in a rental or whatever you might have a leg to stand on.
And remember, I never said a Prius was a nimbler car than the 3. I just said it wasn't THAT far off a lowly 3, ESPECIALLY with similar tires. It's certainly close enough to be "in the ballpark", category not in the "whole different sport" category. Close enough that I could spank an MR2 amateur in one vs. a 3, or even a 350 z... as sad as it is, THAT"s how big the gap is between a pro driver and a hobbyist.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
