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Toyota is mainly moving for logistical reasons, not because TX is some sort of tax haven.
In the same manner, all the car companies have set up research labs in Palo Alto because that is where all the best software engineers and UI designers life. There are also many TX software companies who eventually move to the Bay Area because they can't get the people they want to move to Texas, even though TX is cheaper and has no state income tax.
Also, the real reason companies do moves like this is because it's really a giant layoff, without having to call it a layoff, which would cause their stock to dip. They know half the people in Torrance will not go to Plano, especially the older workers.
Good rationalization. Reading posts from CA cheerleaders makes Ca sound like its perfect. Some said they were glad to see Toyota go because it was a low margin businss beneath them. One even claimed it was because they werent green enough for Ca and this was to punish them into becoming more green.
Meanwhile the long term trends are more moving out of Ca than in from other states. Why is that? Ca is too perfect? No its too costly and has high unemployment meaning jobs are scarce. Even the film industry is begging Obama for tax breaks to make non animation films workabble.
I agree downsizing is one reason you make a move like this and agree Toyota claims its to be nearer the plants. So the question is why arent their any Toyota plants left in perfect Ca????
You can always tell a californian in a crowd but you cant tell him much, he's the one with an ear piece on not listening nor looking to see whats happening to jobs in ca.
How much have the shipyards at Navy Yard cost Pennsylvania?
How much has Comcast squeezed out of the state and city?
If you're talking a small subsidy to move (or to keep) a few thousand, high wage, R&D type jobs where the workers are pulling in high salaries then it might be worth it to pony up.
But to concede $100s of millions for a few thousand relatively low wage jobs (less than $50k/yr) - no, it isn't worth it. And if you think it is - it's only because you don't understand anything about taxes and/or state and local government.
Those workers still need to get to work on a highway or on a train. They still have to send their kids to school, still need emergency services, still get to write off most of their tax burden, etc, etc. The reason we have crumbling schools, bridges that fall down, towns that lay off their teachers, cops, and firefighters and why taxes are so high for those of us who day pay is because too many companies and too many people are finding ways to get out of paying taxes.
These Toyota employees will pay property taxes and sales taxes in Texas. Assuming they buy gasoline, they will also pay gasoline taxes. If they buy a car, they will pay 6.25% for the purchase. These are the taxes that pay for schools, roads, police, fire, etc.
They don't get to "write off most of their tax burden" any more than anyone else (like you).
Toyota is mainly moving for logistical reasons, not because TX is some sort of tax haven.
In the same manner, all the car companies have set up research labs in Palo Alto because that is where all the best software engineers and UI designers life. There are also many TX software companies who eventually move to the Bay Area because they can't get the people they want to move to Texas, even though TX is cheaper and has no state income tax.
Also, the real reason companies do moves like this is because it's really a giant layoff, without having to call it a layoff, which would cause their stock to dip. They know half the people in Torrance will not go to Plano, especially the older workers.
If what they want is a layoff, wouldn't it be easier to just reduce the workforce? That is a lot cheaper than faking it by moving their entire operation 1500 miles.
If what they want is a layoff, wouldn't it be easier to just reduce the workforce? That is a lot cheaper than faking it by moving their entire operation 1500 miles.
I agree, they claim the real reason is the plants left Ca a long time ago and this is the final phase of moving HQ out to be nearer the plant jobs which are no where near Ca. So they are a two time loser on jobs with Toyota.
Moving people making around $100k probably costs $100k per person who moves. So if all 4000 moved its the $40M the state of Tx gave them to move. If they want to downsize by 25% which would be my no inside knowledge but educated guess, packages given to 1000 employees would probably be similar per employee lost unless their were a lot of long service employees downsized. So $10M to down size or $40M to move which matches your position.
This is wonderful for Texas, and Toyota. The exorbitant taxes in California are running off businesses right and left. Texas is the greatest state, and Toyota builds the greatest cars. It's a match made in Heaven.
I was with you the whole way . . . until you said, "Texas is the greatest state". You were on a roll, than ruin it by saying something silly. Lost all credibility.
Toyota is mainly moving for logistical reasons, not because TX is some sort of tax haven.
In the same manner, all the car companies have set up research labs in Palo Alto because that is where all the best software engineers and UI designers life. There are also many TX software companies who eventually move to the Bay Area because they can't get the people they want to move to Texas, even though TX is cheaper and has no state income tax.
Also, the real reason companies do moves like this is because it's really a giant layoff, without having to call it a layoff, which would cause their stock to dip. They know half the people in Torrance will not go to Plano, especially the older workers.
Exactly. Yet there are many posters who want to turn it into a soapbox talk about taxes and regulations and CA vs. Texas. It's a move by headquarters and marketing/sales departments - which are administrative in nature and involves relatively few matters in terms of regulations (compared with a manufacturing operation).
As far as taxes - well, they'd still have to pay state taxes on business generated in those states which have state income taxes. I'd think if you sold a car in California, you're still liable for California state tax.
Last edited by silverkris; 05-01-2014 at 12:29 AM..
I wish they would move to this part of Tennessee. Very little industry here... low paying jobs.
Well, the Volunteer State did spend quite a bit of money to get VW to build their plant in Chattanooga. Also Nissan has a big operation centered around Smyrna...will they expand to your area?
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