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Does anyone know why the Mansion family targeted Sharon Tate and her home? Was it just coincidence?
Tates residence was a rental home. From what I've read Mansons target was Melcher who he'd had a falling out with and rented the home previous to Tate. I'll assume Manson was unaware.
Tates residence was a rental home. From what I've read Mansons target was Melcher who he'd had a falling out with and rented the home previous to Tate. I'll assume Manson was unaware.
Yes, he wanted Melcher....but....I read in one book that it was thought that Manson had made a visit to the house sometime prior to the murders but after Melcher moved out...not sure if it's true. If so, then he'd know Melcher was gone.
I read Helter Skelter again not long ago....in addition to being so shocking, it's also fascinating. Still.
Yes, he wanted Melcher....but....I read in one book that it was thought that Manson had made a visit to the house sometime prior to the murders but after Melcher moved out...not sure if it's true. If so, then he'd know Melcher was gone.
Never read it....but wouldnt doubt he knew Melcher wasnt there.
Amazing how a paranoid schizophrenic on drugs never missed a beat.
Although Kasabian did not kill anyone, or conspire to kill anyone. She testified that she told Manson, when he asked her to participate, that she wasn’t like him and couldn’t just go in and kill someone.
I don’t think that the average lay person knows that much about criminal law, and the specific legal details of having to prove conspiracy to commit a crime. It appears that an oral agreement (e.g. a conversation) is enough to indicate an effort to conspire when it comes to the penal code that virgode posted, above.
Did you read Helter Skelter? It’s been a long time since I read it, but I recall that Bugliosi went to great efforts to uncover just how much planning went into these murders. There was a part in his book in which Bugliosi describes questioning Terry Melcher, and he picks up something in Melcher’s demeanor that causes him to think that Melcher has not disclosed something. Melcher admits that months before the murders, the owner of the Cielo Drive home, who was in the entertainment business and spent a lot of time abroad, told Melcher that he was taking a shower in the guest house--the guest house in which the young caretaker, Garretson, whom he later hired, was sleeping when the murders took place--when Manson himself knocked on his door. He asked how Manson had gotten there, and Manson told him that the people in the main home had directed him to the guest house. So Bugliosi had to go back and gather evidence—through Tate’s photographer, who remembered the incident with Manson--that Manson had, prior to August 9, seen some of the people he later ordered to be killed.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 02-06-2019 at 10:47 PM..
Reason: Deleted quoted post
There was a part in his book in which Bugliosi describes questioning Terry Melcher, and he picks up something in Melcher’s demeanor that causes him to think that Melcher has not disclosed something. Melcher admits that months before the murders, the owner of the Cielo Drive home, who was in the entertainment business and spent a lot of time abroad, told Melcher that he was taking a shower in the guest house--the guest house in which the young caretaker, Garretson, whom he later hired, was sleeping when the murders took place--when Manson himself knocked on his door. He asked how Manson had gotten there, and Manson told him that the people in the main home had directed him to the guest house. So Bugliosi had to go back and gather evidence—through Tate’s photographer, who remembered the incident with Manson--that Manson had, prior to August 9, seen some of the people he later ordered to be killed.
Kasabian had only been with the family for a few weeks. Atkins and Krenwinkel, in contrast, had been with Chucky for 2 years. Watson had been living with the family for almost a year.
Why do you think the theory was "created"? The Beatles' song referred to Helter Skelter as a slide in a London amusement park. Manson put an entirely different meaning on it: he wanted to start a race war.
It doesn’t appear that payment is required for conspiracy to occur. Apparently there were explicit orders from Manson to murder everyone who happened to be in those two homes. And in terms of a plan, for example, Tex Watson testified that Manson told him to cut the wires to the gate, a clear example of an agreement.
Although Kasabian did not kill anyone, or conspire to kill anyone. She testified that she told Manson, when he asked her to participate, that she wasn’t like him and couldn’t just go in and kill someone.
I don’t think that the average lay person knows that much about criminal law, and the specific legal details of having to prove conspiracy to commit a crime. It appears that an oral agreement (e.g. a conversation) is enough to indicate an effort to conspire when it comes to the penal code that virgode posted, above.
Did you read Helter Skelter? It’s been a long time since I read it, but I recall that Bugliosi went to great efforts to uncover just how much planning went into these murders. There was a part in his book in which Bugliosi describes questioning Terry Melcher, and he picks up something in Melcher’s demeanor that causes him to think that Melcher has not disclosed something. Melcher admits that months before the murders, the owner of the Cielo Drive home, who was in the entertainment business and spent a lot of time abroad, told Melcher that he was taking a shower in the guest house--the guest house in which the young caretaker, Garretson, whom he later hired, was sleeping when the murders took place--when Manson himself knocked on his door. He asked how Manson had gotten there, and Manson told him that the people in the main home had directed him to the guest house. So Bugliosi had to go back and gather evidence—through Tate’s photographer, who remembered the incident with Manson--that Manson had, prior to August 9, seen some of the people he later ordered to be killed.
Thanks, I could not remember which book it was in that Manson had visited Cielo....
If Van Houten’s current case survives a 150-day review process, it will rest in the hands of California's new Governor Gavin Newsom, as The Associated Press and NBC News reported Wednesday (1/30/19).
I don't know what to think about her parole. I was a young adult when the Manson murders were committed, and when they were all arrested, I thought then they all deserved the death penalty.
There has never been a doubt in my mind some of them were malicious to the core, and would be dangerous if freed even if they were old. Manson was, as was Susan Atkins and Bobby Soleil. Gypsy was, too, although she never did any time for the murders. All of them were bloody-minded and they all had shown it with other attacks and murders that occurred earlier. Sandra Good and Squeaky Fromme were both very violent too, but were never convicted.
Here's a question: All of the above could have murdered someone without ever knowing Charlie Manson. Soleil did, Atkins tried, and Good probably murdered her first husband. Fromme tried to murder President Ford. Gypsy has a record of violent crimes.
But if Leslie Van Houten had never met Manson, would she have been a murderer or have done a violent crime?
Well, she did participate, so there's that as a bald fact. But after 60 years in prison, where if a person has the natural capacity for violence, it would be easily displayed, she's never shown any. Only regret, and an increasing willingness to take full responsibility for her one-time action.
Most murders from passion are released after about 25-30 years, and hers was a crime of passion as I see it. Sure, it was twisted passion, so strange it's hard for almost all of us to ever understand, but not of her design or calculation.
At 69 years of age, I wouldn't be afraid of her if she was freed. I think she will spend the rest of her life in bewilderment and sadness outside, as her world outside is long gone. She won't recognize very much of anything outside because it has changed so much, and she's missed it all. Her youth, her best years, and even a good part of her old age have been spent behind prison walls.
Once outside, I think she would find more contentment back inside. But inside or outside, the best Leslie will get is some peaceful solitude, and maybe that's all she'll really wants. If it is, she will be just as forgotten as if she is still inside prison.
I wouldn't ever worry about her. But the thought that Squeaky and Sandra are on the loose, free as birds, still gives me the willies just knowing they're one state away from me. Good has always been free, and Squeaky was freed in 2009. Both are old rattlesnakes now, but still venomous.
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